To agree that stupid people are breeding more than smart ones

[Holamum]

I read this article and the comments. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22002530

It is not unrealistic that the human race will be extinct one day, especially since the sun is probably finite.

There was a comment on that page that refers to Mike Judge's film Indiocracy - suggesting the problem is that stupid people are breeding more than intelligent people because smart people are more responsible. The film is a comedy but the commentator says 'it's bang on the money on what's happening at the moment'.

I actually found myself agreeing. Most of the intelligent people I know have as many children as they can afford (which is one or two maximum).

AIBU to think this?

Natural Selection is Dead

Only DM readers use the verb "to breed" when referring to people, not animals. Do you call women "females" as well OP?

Seriously, can someone tell me what these objective, tangible measurements (presumably you mean of global intelligence?) are?
If you've created/discovered one, you'd better tell the psychologists, quick

ElenorRigby

Natural selection isn't dead, it is jut really slow at the moment. The future of the human race will probably depend on which humans survive the next devastating event eg a meteorite or nuclear war. For example those who can withstand high radiation levels or can digest certain plants if and when food becomes scarce

Natural selection does t mean that the strongest or most intelligent survive, it means that those who best fit their changing environment survive and probably those traits that make the difference between death and survival won't have anything to do with intelligence

"I am not saying that I am one of the intelligent ones" Oh, good.

"Look at the Clintons - they just had one"

Look at the Windsors - they had four. Do you think they're possibly not as intelligent as the Clintons, Holamum?

Are some people on this thread casually assuming that if you're not rich, you're obviously not clever, because clever people would naturally prioritise earning?

Actually, I'm going to go against the grain and say YANBU - my friends and I all have half decent jobs, earning way more than the average salary, but we can only afford 1 or 2 sprogs, too. And we're not daft. The very daft people (the ones who think it is funny to teach their three year old to say 'Fuck off you silly cow') on my road have all got three or four or more kids and look blankly at me when I ask about how they can afford them all/what about helping them all out when they grow up/how many children did they plan to have. of course not all people who have lots of children are stupid at all, and Mumsnet is not a forum for stupid people (generally speaking!). I personally think it is quite environmentally unsound to have more than two children - the planet simply cannot sustain the current population growth. But on an individual family basis, I realise the families on here with more than two children are a mere drop in the overpopulation ocean.

If your intellect runs counter to the survival of your genes and isn't as massive as you think.

Perhaps there's nothing wrong with that. There are all sorts of people willingly erasing themselves from the future of humanity atm, we're burning away the dead wood and it's brilliant.

As part of an arranged marriage my parents introduced me to an immigrant who wanted to have 7 children with me. Where he was from the philosophy was that the more children you have, the better. When I questioned how we were going to feed, house and clothe these 7 children, he said he would get a job as a taxi driver and support us all. I thought it was overly idealistic and simplistic.
There was little to no thought about the quality of life we could offer to the children. It was about quantity rather than quality of life.
My intelligent friends think about the quality of life they can give to their children. Not just how many they can possibly have.

Hope that doesn't sound unreasonable or nasty.

Haggisfish The worldwide birthrate is static at 2 billion a year. Yes, I agree with you that some people should concentrate on bringing up their existing children well rather than adding child after child that they clearly can't cope with or bring up well, but it's a different argument to that of overpopulation. It's more one of lack of education and ambition. It's a problem of people only feeling the only thing they can do well is have babies that become irritating children that need to be brought up. The world is overpopulated because we are living longer and not having as many wars.

yes, i kind of assumed everyone would see the difference between
intelligence
and
education level

but perhaps not

Thing is with an argument such as this you can't point at specific examples. The Wikipedia link discusses this as a trend. So it's looking at whole populations, not one person's neighbours.

Agree that it's life chance, wealth etc making more of a difference to children than a perceived measure of intelligence.

I also believe (outside of any scientific knowledge) that humans have a very steadfast desire to be remembered and never forgotten. Whether that is physically through procreation and living through your genetic line or intellectually from having philosophies, discoveries, achievements that we hope will carry forward through generations.

I always think of the Gilgamesh (the oldest written price of literature we have dating more than 400 years old) which is about a Demi-god who carries out a range of huge heroic tasks with the sole goal of being remembered... And his story is.

Owlina - yes yes about general trend rather than specific examples.

Missed a zero. The epic of Gilgamesh is more than 4000 years old.

What an idiotic argument.

Donna - you sound like a twat.

My intelligent friends think about the quality of life they can give to their children. Not just how many they can possibly have. Hope that doesn't sound unreasonable or nasty.

It sounds both of those. There are many kind, caring, considerate people who aren't intelligent in an academic way, and who want the best they can for their children.

Fertility is not just about how many children you have but the age you have them. I didn't have children until my late 30s/early 40s. An old school friend had hers in her early 20s. I'm guessing she'll have grandchildren before me, just like her own mother had grandchildren in her 40s whereas Mum had to wait until her 60s. My friend has a photo of 5 generations of her family (all the women had children in their early 20s), we only managed 3 generations at a time (my grandmothers had children at a similar age to me, my Mum was the disgrace to the family having me at 24).

It's well known that education and access to contraception reduced the number of children women choose to have and increases the age they have them at but since we live in a country where everyone has access to free contraception I think we have to accept people are choosing to have the size of family they want.

FWIW I think it's also partially regional, my friends in the south all have 1 or 2 children, my local friends and my old school friends (who all live in different parts of the north or Scotland) have 2 or 3 or 4 children. The DC are completely normal at their naice school to be in a family of 3 children. We can afford it because we aren't spending stupid money on a mortgage.

How iz they stupid if every time they av a kid they get more money. To sit on arse all day and then av 6or7 to wipe their bums when they're old

I've got 4 by the way often thing it was a dumb thing to do but live them all really

Oh good God.

The sun is 'probably' finite (do you even know how nuclear fusion works?) yet you're complaining about 'stupid people' breeding?
I'd think that most of the poor people on benefits having the number of kids they fucking feel like without pretending you need a £500 buggy new for each baby are more intelligent than the unoriginal thoughtless upper class management consultants who propagate an unstable and damaging economic system actually.

Bishbashboosh - children are not obliged to wipe your bum when you are old. And that is not, in my opinion, a good enough reason for having children. It should be about love and giving them a good quality of life.

And FudgeFaceMcZ I said 'probably' because I do not know. At risk of blowing my own trumpet: 'One who knows that he [or she] does not know, is a truly wise man [or woman]' - Socrates (A great philosopher, fyi). You can't know everything!

oh i agree, maybe I see too many stupid people

You are going to have to define intelligent and stupid.

DH is intelligent, one of those super smart scary people. He is a banker and makes lots of money.

He could not however sort out lets say plumbing, which when it comes right down to it is fair more use to the human race than the ability to add up.

Different people bring different things to the human race and we need pretty much all of those skills and abilities to tick along.

If you need your files sorted, I am your girl, if you need a particle generator then I am as thick as thick can be.