AIBU to think lots of motorbike drivers are dangerous arseholes?

[wheresthebunman]

still feeling shakey & fuming after an 'incident' with a motorbike on the road this morning as i was driving my 2 young DS home. usual story of bike creating his own lane in queue in attempt to cut up & race cars at lights. he then proceeded to bob & weave around, causing me to slam breaks a few times and when i didnt make space for him to overtake me in busy traffic, drove his bike parallel to car shouting abuse & flicking finger.
ive got a 'kids on board' sign & am not a dodgy driver! just getting from a to b. i live in a city & this happens alot & im sick of these agressive, bullying fuckers. they are very different to cyclists who tend to look after themselves on the roads without disrupting flow of other traffic.
'THINK BIKE' my arse

Lots of bike riders are arseholes. I'm a biker and I get as annoyed by the idiots as everyone else. Filtering between lanes is perfectly legal but it's the riders' responsibility not to go too fast, not to intimidate other road users.
The interesting part for me is peeping into cars as a go past. Driving is often a lower priority than it should be. Phone calls, texting, coffee, food, fiddling with radios, talking to other occupants if the car, doing make up, ipads, maps... the list gies on.
Don't assume we're all like that. I've been riding all year round for 15 years and all the near misses I've have had have been car drivers not checking blind spots properly. No road users like the impatient ones regardless of the number of wheels.

(Expecting to be shot down in flames )

Motorcyclists I encounter in built up areas/heavy traffic are generally sensible and courteous.

However I live near the Brecon Beacons and the behaviour of weekend bikers let loose on long, twisty roads that they seem to consider their own personal playground is nothing short of disgusting.

If every car driver also rode a motorcycle, accidents would hardly ever happen.

Nonsense.

My first collision was 3 weeks after I passed my CBT. The lights had just changed and I was about to release my break, then a people carrier driven by a woman, full of children went into the back of me. My second accident, 3 months later, was again just as the lights had changed a woman from the filter lane decided it was, incorrectly, her right of way, she hit the side back of my bike, the only time I've been in an ambulance and had x-rays. The third accident was a junction a few yards after a pedestrian crossing, the lights went amber as I crossed the crossing, the car from the side road pulled out and I hit him. He told me I had gone though a red light, at this point the pedestrians started shouting at him that I hadn't. After this I accepted that I had no rights on the roads, cars would ignore me, and expect cars to hit me and do stupid unpredictable things. Things got better after that. If more people thought bike maybe the roads would be safer.

I think it's sensible to give motorbikes a very wide berth myself. Everyone just has to get where they are going without accident, injury or death.

Keep your eyes open, be aware and don't get wound up and lose concentration.

I have found the opposite. My ex used to have a bike and I would ride pillion. Cars would often try and race with you, cut you up etc...

My Dad has got a motorbike. He is in his 70s. I wanted to cry when he got it. He's a very competent rider-it's all the idiots in cars I worry about.

I just avoid getting that worked up by other road users, whatever variety. There was one motorcyclist though who was in front of me and caught in a traffic jam coming out of my village. He seemed to think I was too close behind him so I gave him plenty of space but he continually looked behind him, gestured at me and gave the impression he thought very little of my driving, despite nothing having happened. He was looking behind himself so much at me that he rode into the car in front of him.

I don't think he was representative of all motorcylists though, and had simply taken some sort of irrational dislike to me as a female driver, and I feel sorry for the ones who have embedded themselves in my neighbour's railings - we are lobbying for at least a 40mph speed limit as the road is deceptively dangerous.

YABU

You should refresh your knowledge of the highway code.

Due to their obvious vulnerability, motorcyclists tend to and should, ride defensively. in general traffic situations, the biggest danger to motorcyclists is car drivers.

Those that ride for pleasure, some will ride very fast on empty open roads, there are dangers in that, but you are talking about someone who like you, is trying to get from A to B, not some boy racer.

My Dad is a motorcyclist, he had his first bike at 16, he is now 70 and still rides a fairly powerful sports bike [for pleasure and only in favourable conditions] He used to use his bike for his work commute, because he worked long hours in a driving job and avoiding sitting in traffic on the way home by riding his bike made sense.

He had a serious accident over 30 years ago, which was caused by and entirely the fault of a car driver. He wasn't speeding, not even close, but he T-boned a car that pulled out of a side road right in front of him, came off his bike, went over the car and over another car further up the rd in front and landed on his head. He was very 'lucky' to 'only' have a badly broken femur, but he was in hospital for weeks and off work for 18 months. He still has a titanium rod and plates.The car driver, was of course totally unscathed.

We know lots of motorcyclists and many of them have had accidents, on the whole the accidents have been caused by car drivers who either weren't paying due care and attention, or who drove agressively [probably because, like the OP they were jealous that the motorcyclist didn't have to wait in traffic, which is kind of the point of riding a bike!] There were a couple of lads back in the 60s who were friends of my Dad who rode too fast in the wrong places and came unstuck, that was their own fault, but motorcyclists like that don't represent the majority.

OP, it is you that sounds like the dangerous arsehole.

Hello - AngryFeets other half here. She told me about this thread, and I couldn't help but ask her if I could chime in.

I will warn you all now, I have a tendancy to rant and ramble on, so this may get long..................If you can't be arsed to read it all, then fair play - I wouldn't read it either ;)

First up, I think that there needs to be some differentiation between Motorcyclists and other what are known as "Powered two wheelers (PTWs)".
I, as a car driver, and motorcyclist, have my own set of pet hates too.
As I see it, PTWs for the most part fall into the following categories:

1. Kids on Scooters/Mopeds.

These are not motorcyclists, and in my view should be removed from the road until they have reached a mature enough age to respect the danger they are in, and the danger they cause. A 16 year old can do a 4 hour course, and ride off into the sunset - they have no roadcraft, no experience, and are my worst nightmare. The 16 year old who was on my "CBT" Course, tried to turn right onto a roundabout..... says it all.

1. Fair weather fairies/Sports bike "racers".

These, whilst motorcyclists, are probably the most dangerous form - Only come out in sunshine, their bikes being kept in the garage over the winter months. For the most part, these guys are a little reckless - I see them using their bikes for commuting in the summer on occasion, and they are certainly a bit of a liablilty, and most likely to piss off car drivers with reckless behaviour

1. Year round or career bikers.

Usually people who choose motorcycles as their preferred form of transport, or use a motorcycle for their work (couriers etc). Usually the least offensive, and understand the risks and dangers of biking. Also would probably/most likely encompass "tourers", people riding long distance for "fun".

1. Commuters

People who use a bike (or scooter) to get from home to work, as driving traffic annoys them (this is me BTW).

1. Arshole bikers

Like car drivers - there are always going to be arsholes - not a lot we can do about it sadly.

You may be wondering why I am listing all these out. In my view it has a major impact to the perception of bikers from other road users. If you live out in the sticks, and you only see high speed crotch rocket riders "tanking the twisties" (country lane high speed riding), your perception may well be different to someone who lives near the blackwall tunnel, and sees people filtering through traffic at 20mph.

The perception is important, as it impacts behaviour:

My typical ride to work, which is around 23 miles each way, goes from a fairly quiet area, into a urban area, and then into the east of london, via the Blackwall, and each area presents its own hazards, and my riding changes accordingly.
Typically, the first part has to contend with the school run, the next faces people who are clearly fed up with being stuck in traffic, and lastly the tunnel - which is always challenging.

To me, it sounds like the OP has a bad perception of bikers, probably due to a higher exposure of arsehole bikers (there are a fair number around, and I hate them too, they make my biking life harder), and sadly I think a lot of people have this stance.

I know that no solution was being looked for here, but I am conscious that even if I/we/anyone can open one persons eyes to the reality of what is happening, thats one person more looking out for bikers (arsehole bikers or otherwise), then its a win.

To that end, here is my plea.
To bikers:
I have completed a BikeSafe course with the Met Police. It was the single most informative day I have ever had in my life. It changed my riding style, opened my eyes to more possibilities when situations arise, and made me respect the danger I already knew I was in - more.
If you have the capacity to attend a Bike Safe course, or a RoSPA road group, please do it. I firmly believe it can and will save you an accident. They also teach you how to deal with drivers like the OP (the biker in the OPs case sounds like a bit of a twat, and he probably would have handled the situation differently if he had been on a similiar course).

To A.N.Other road users - be it vans, cars, lorrys, taxi's, buses.....
Bikers are vulnerable. Look for them, check your blind spot.
Consider this. You have a car, it has 4 wide wheels, with braking capacity to stop 2tonnes in most cases, and keep contact with the road. Bikes have 2 very small contact patches with the road - when they brake hard, it can be dangerous - in the wet, even moreso. Please look at the gap you are pulling into when exiting a side road :)
Equally importantly, please realise that bikes are allowed to filter. It is not creating "our own lane" - In town, its why most of us ride bikes - to have the capacity to filter through traffic. If you move out the way for bikes, it will be appreciated. If you stay where you are, bikes will work their way round you. If you close the gap, because you think its unfair that you have to sit in traffic, and bike don't - then, to be honest, that just makes you a complete and utter wanker (I have stronger word choices, but not sure what is acceptable here).

I have so many example of bikes being idiots, car drivers being idiots, "professional" (cabs/couriers etc) drivers being idiots - some of them on film (I now have a helmet cam as an "insurance policy" after some tit hit my hand with his car, and is trying to claim against me for whiplash!), but it would get very boring for you all, and I think my wifey would not like the trend that would develop - she warned me not to be horrible about school run mums (my nemesis).

To the OP - if you are local to South London, I would love to take you out as a pillion on the back of my bike, and show you "what the biker sees". I think it may open your eyes.

Oh, and for what its worth, a "Child on Board" sticker in a car window is a pre-warning for me that the car should be avoided, as it will be making erratic manouvres without warning, and the driver is probably a little too self absorbed ;)

I could write about the trials and tribulations of this all day, but this thread is now destined to turn into "AngryFeet, how do you live with a guy who can waffle on so much?!?!?!?!), so I am going to sod off and perhaps do some work!
Thanks for reading (if you did!)

Enjoy.

J

yanbu

WOW @ Mr AngryFeet!

(I did read it all (just to prove my endurance to myself )

Very well put.

Incidentally where has the OP gone?!

Lots of people who ride motorbikes ARE dangerous arseholes.

Some are dangerous nice people (who aren't very good riders)

Many, many more are sensible, careful, safe and considerate.

I got my license in 2001 and think I'm fairly well qualified to comment on this as I also have a car license since 1995.

So don't judge us all by some twat who wound you up.

Fair play to you Mr AngryFeet

An old friend of mine taught me about biking too by letting me ride pillion.

Amberleaf
A friend of mine was T-boned last year only his martials arts training ie knowing how to fall saved him from months in hospital too. Twelve months on his hip is still giving him pain. he's only 30.

Yes yes to the bike safe courses I was at the bike show last week talking to the guys on their stand and if you commute into London you can get it for free also if you work for a company who has a few commuters they will come to your place of work and run a course for free as well
Even if you have to pay for it it's a good day out and they like to see you " making progress " and if you take one thing away from the day that might save a life it's worth it

Mr Feet again,
The BikeSafe course was £45 inc lunch. Lunch at a restaurant too - not a catering job.

There were 9 people on mine, and some of them had been riding for 20+ years, and at the end, some of them said, "I came here not expecting to learn anything, and I have learnt a lot". Which I think is testament to the value of the course, and the fact that when on a bike "you are always learning".
Would recommend this course to anyone. If you want to progress further, the RoSPA training is well worth looking into. I would be doing more of it too if Mrs Feet didnt mind the house not being decorated ;)

Of course bikes can filter through traffic, but most of them do it too quickly and they put themselves at more risk, no matter what speed they do it.

Recently in the New Forest, there was a huge incident with ponies on the road and the police had stopped the traffic. A bike killed a pony whilst filtering and another was also involved in the incident.

Also, I know personally of a number of incidents where bikers have been involved in incidents where they've been knocked off filtering when cars are trying to turn right in standing traffic.

My own DH was knocked off filtering past standing traffic when a car decided to pull right into the lane to turn right. Filtering at whatever speed increases danger and it wouldn't have mattered to my DH whether his injuries were his fault or the driver's, the result was the same.

I'm sorry, but the majority of bike accidents I know about personally have been contributed towards because the rider isn't being as responsible as they could be.

Good post Mr Angryfeet, worth reading to the end!

ElenorRigby My Dad was a similar age as your friend when he had his accident. He had pain for a while, but considering the injury, he recovered well and is still very fit despite his age!