AIBU to think there would be more uproar If this was the Tory's

[trampstamp]

Have I missed something here why is no one bothered that labour pretty much lobbied for a group that would see that the age of consent is lowered to 4 years old ffs


If this was the Tory's there would be up roar and the fact red ed is silent on this is shocking

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

I watched a program about cognitive bias. One of them is confirmational bias where people only look at things that confirms their opinion and are unable to use other data / facts which reject an opinion.

I wonder if that is happening on here?

[Dawndonnaagain]

The Guardian

[BoulevardOfBrokenSleep]

Agree with hackmum, the bare bones of the Mail story ("40 years ago she worked for an organisation that had an affiliation with another organisation that campaigned for paedophiles") are correct, but it's the insinuation and hyperbole that the Mail does so well which are out of all proportion.

This is a 'paragraph on page 5 of Private Eye' story, not a headline for four days. I mean, I know they hate anyone who dares suggest women are actual human beings and not 'bikini bodies', bu's a longt this is really a bit odd.

And it seems odd to start this now, over a year before the election - do you think they're going to pull shit like this every couple of months till then? How long ago was the Miliband smear campaign?

[BoulevardOfBrokenSleep]

bu's a longt = but. Obviously.

[trampstamp]

I am mealy pointing out that if this were a Tory MP there would be calls for there head on a platter
And I defo think that if this were Michael gov or IDS who was linked to this mumsnetters would have there knickers a lot more in a twist

I remember the Andrew Mitchell affair were people were so quick to call for his head they didn't believe a word of his account and that squarely to do with the fact he's a Tory even now you still have some defending the police ffs

[trampstamp]

poster BoulevardOfBrokenSleep funny you don't recall the recording of the Andrew Mitchell affair In the same vain.

Was a deliberate attempt by the left wing police union "to get there own back and smear the Tory's" no ????and the papers lapped it up

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

TBF - you could just see Andrew Mitchell calling people Plebs.

It's believable.

[Dawndonnaagain]

You are merely stirring up a storm in a teacup.
As for the Andrew Mitchell stuff being in the same vein. Of course it isn't. 1)It was current.
2)It was current.
3)It was current.
Ad fucking infinitum.
The Harman stuff was a)harmless and b) donkey's ago.

[Catkinsthecatinthehat]

Well, that's the first time I've heard the Police Federation described as left-wing! I think they are pretty much small-c conservative and hate all the actual parties.

I do think that one thing both the Lord McAlpine and Andrew Mitchell claims over the past year have shown is that incredibly serious allegations can be given huge prominence by the papers and then be shown to be complete rubbish so things need to be taken with a pinch of salt. Remember that the Mail was one of the papers that wrongly accused Chris Jeffries of murder, which is the worst false-allegation you can make.

[crispycronut]

I think the Telegraphs reporting on HH is far more damaging than the DM having read the article linked below.

Up until today i didnt realise the NCCL only had 12 employees, for some reason i had presumed HH was one of many so bits could have got past her. Apparently that isnt the case unless she was shit at her job.

As a labour voter i think she really has to go and get a job elsewhere.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10661251/New-evidence-casts-doubt-on-Harriet-Harmans-defence-over-paedophile-links.html

[AngelaDaviesHair]

Well, on Andrew Mitchell,
Nothing relating to the central allegation has been proved or disproved. The one single police officer whom everyone agrees was involved in the incident with Mitchell claimed Mitchell said 'Fucking plebs.' Mitchell strongly denies that. Both men are suing each other for libel, so they'll give evidence at trial and we will be able to decide who we believe.

All the retractions, convictions, conflicting versions etc relate to an appalling, dishonest, ex post facto attempt to shore up the copper in question and do down Mitchell. This occurred after the incident. There is no evidence or suggestion the one copper concerned in the incident asked/told anyone to conspire in this way so far as I am aware.

And yes, it bears absolutely no relation to the allegations being made against Harman, Dromey and Hewitt. There are no parallels to be drawn that I can see.

[nauticant]

The substance of that Telegraph piece is that Nettie Pollard, the NCCL’s Gay and Lesbian Officer, seemed to be naïve and exercised poor judgement.

Is HH responsible for what went on in Pollard's head nearly 40 years ago?

[AngelaDaviesHair]

Exactly. I can't see how demonstrating Nettie Pollard needed her head testing proves something against HH beyond 'Oh, you should have set her straight about this' at the most. And there was no need for HH to do that, as her husband Jack Dromey had it covered.

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

I bet a lot of politicians have skeletons in their cupboard from a long time ago.

And tenuous links can be made. Links to dictators, arm dealers, terrorists etc.

[crispycronut]

They were working in the same team then yes it was HH business to know what her name would be linked too, especially when you are dealing with a group that campaigned to loosen the laws around paedophillia.

If she had a rogue colleague in a tiny team that supported PIE then wouldnt you
a) quit your job if you had an ounce of integrity or
b) Enlist the support of the other 10 employees to oust her?

Maybe HH was also naive and exercised poor judgement in which she should have just said sorry or maybe she was career hungry and turned a blind eye as suggested by Tom O Carroll the leader of PIE in the latest Huffington post article.

Either way she is damaging the Labour Party and needs to go

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/02/26/pie-harriet-harman-rock-the-boat_n_4856460.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

What evidence is there that a rogue colleague supported PIE?

[Dawndonnaagain]

One of the reasons that the Mail is targetting Harman is that they fear her. If she becomes the next leader of the Labour Party, and many think she should, she will have a far greater chance of winning an election than Ed. That obviously frightens the Mail.

[nauticant]

They were working in the same team

Which team was this, a hybrid Legal Affairs/Gay and Lesbian Rights team?

Do you have any evidence that HH was aware she had a colleague in this hybrid Legal Affairs/Gay and Lesbian Rights team that supported PIE?

The problem with this type of posting is that it can't resist slipping in stuff that they'd like to be true. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness

[crispycronut]

Documents dated from 1978 and 1979 disclose Nettie Pollard - the NCCL’s Gay and Lesbian Officer - sat on the group’s 14-strong gay rights committee with Tom O’Carroll, PIE's chairman who was later jailed for child porn offences.
Miss Pollard was so close to O’Carroll that when he wrote his 1980 book arguing the case for sex with children to be legalised, he thanked her in its foreword as she had “read the whole text in draft and made many helpful suggestions”.
The archive also contained a hand written note from O’Carroll to Miss Pollard on a PIE compliments slip asking if there was any chance of tabling amendments to the 1978 Child Protection Bill, and ending on a cheery “See you soon”.

The archive also contained a handwritten note from Miss Harman to Miss Pollard dating from the late 1970s, as well as a copy of PIE’s constitution – dating from March 1975 – detailing the aims of the group including a pledge “to campaign, as members see fit, for the legal and social acceptance of paedophile love”.
Miss Pollard, who lives in London, was made redundant from the NCCL in 1997. She remains an outspoken gay activist and has an executive position at the Campaign for Homosexuality Equality. She declined to speak to The Telegraph.
A spokesman for Miss Harman told The Telegraph: "Tom O'Carroll was a paedophile and Nettie Pollard appears to have promoted paedophilia

Copied from the Telegraph article above.

I would say Miss Pollard who worked for NCCL until 1999 and very closely with TOC didnt represent the views of HH and the other 10.

[SeaSickSal]

Sorry, but people who think Harriet Harman stands a better chance of winning an election than Ed Miliband are absolutely deluded.

She is absolute poison to any voter who is not a hard left wing politically correct Guardian reader. Which is the majority of the electorate.

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

What issues have you got with her? Apart from this issue?

[eightandthreequarters]

This is a non-issue dredged up by the Daily Fail. It would be a non-issue no matter which party it involved. The NCCL (now Liberty) have spoken directly on this issue, apologising and distancing themselves for the PIE.

[Catkinsthecatinthehat]

That Telegraph article is a fine example of the insinuation posters have complained about.

So the Liberty archive shows that Pollard (the stupid woman)worked with someone later convicted of child sex offences. The archive shows Harman wrote a note to Pollard . The same archive that contains the Harman note also contains a book advocating paedophilia.

Its attempting to link those disparate elements and written in such a way that it looks at first glance like Harman wrote the note campaigning for 'child love'.

If you read it closely it's just a list of three things in the Liberty archive, but nudge nudge wink wink. The content of Harman's note isn't disclosed (probably becuase it isn't a 'To Do' list with 'raping toddlers' at the top)

[Viviennemary]

She is simply dreadful and gets my back up every time she appears. I'd absolutely love to see the back of both her and Milliband. Born with a silver spoon in her mouth, children at selective schools all the usual stereotype champagne socialist. I voted Labour last time and was determined not to this time. But I might if they get in some decent people at the top. Harriet Harman winning an election. She'll make Maggie Thatcher look popular. The very thought!!

[itshardthinkingofanickname]

Like I said - I watched a programme about cognitive bias.

This thread is full of it - people believing what they want and looking for evidence that supports their view.