To be confused re school holidays as children at our school seem to be still taking them in term time

[Retropear]

which I don't have a problem with as such.

However I've just paid premium price booking a holiday in the summer holiday with the understanding we 'd get a huge fine if it was taken in the term time.

I'd have booked it in the term if I'd known it was ok to do this.

Confused.

I'm taking my DCs out for a week for a holiday. I have good reasons (FWIW not cost of holiday related) for taking them in term time so we've just had to budget for the fine we may get.

Others at the school are doing it too, some because they have circumstances they can't work around and some because it is cheaper in term time.

The thing is, if you are booking a £6000 holiday, the additional £240 doesn't really make too much of an impact on your overall holiday cost, it is say only an additional 4% of your holiday cost.

However, if your holiday is a Haven caravan for a week, say £400 for the week in off-peak season, then the same £240 fine massively increases your holiday cost, relatively speaking. Then it adds an additional 60% on to your holiday cost.

It seems only worth risking the fine for a big, expensive holiday, otherwise the cost of the fine is too large.

Although, that said if basic caravan holiday in term time plus the fine is cheaper than doing it in school holidays then I suppose it is still worth doing.

Agree totally ninewksandcounting-which is why it'll be the least well off that are hit hardest. The children in lower income families that are less able to afford day trips, meals out, weekends away...and now holidays with family to.

Bedlam Yes, totally agree. Its seems very unfair.

What is more unfair is the postcode lottery of whether your DC attend a school where the Head refers to the council EWO or not. Some Heads are happy to leave absences as unauthorised and nothing comes of it, some refer to the EWO for persistent absences and some refer for every unauthorised absence. So those who may be fined at one school may not be fined for identical circumstances at the next school along.

It is unfair and has more to do with that particular schools overall attendance and their Ofsted targets that particular Head is working towards rather than anything to do with an individual family and their situation.

Thing is oh actually booked his summer holidays two months ago they have just been rejected and told he can't take leave during the hoildays in summer so wtf are you supposed to do

It can't cause that many issues for the school as so many are still authorising it! If teachers were so against it, they would now, given the change in rules, quickly start referring families to the lea for fines etc but so many are not. There are 8 schools in my area, most are authorising leave (it's still head teachers choice - they just have strengthened the criteria). If the heads list it as unauthorised, I'm still not sure if theyre letting LEA know as none are getting fines. Our school actually has told us they disagree with the fines and even tell us which weeks to avoid (sats etc). They will continue to authorise but have just lengthened the form we need to complete purely so they can justify the time off.

If our teacher says its no problem then I'm happy with that. Its unfair to start blaming one persons week off with affecting the rest of the class, some kids are off days and days for other reasons etc.

jamtoast12. they might be authorising this year but just wait until their Ofsted inspection when they see the number of auth/unauth absences and the lack of referrals. we will be looking at a very different picture in say 3 years time if this isn't repealed.

I have never taken the DC out of school for a holiday.

We very rarely do expensive foreign holidays anyway (once every 5 yrs maybe).

It feels wrong to me (maybe as I am a teacher's child?) and I just feel that I would be disrespecting the school, the teachers and the education they are offering.

I also feel that the DC need to know education is an amazing right, that you don't just throw away at times it doesn't suit you, just to go skiing.

It doesn't bother me what other people do, let them go whenever they want. But I won't.

I don't think so. Its a large school of over 500, very few take out anyway and school only allow if attendance is ok. It won't affect their figures anymore than it did before as the numbers taking out won't increase as the school have always let us. They just expect us to write more so head can authorise it and the head decides if he can authorise it not the LEA. As still head teach discretion. They're won't be many referrals as most are authorised as long as parent reports a strong reason (whether true or not). The school has always had a very good overall attendance rate so that's unlikely to change.

so jamtoast12 what if Ofsted turn around and say for example you cannot be graded outstanding unless your authorised and/or unauthorised leave is X% or less. what then. and please don't for one minute think that Ofsted wouldn't do this, move the goal posts I mean. all attendance and all absence is coded. once the principle has been established its a very easy step for Ofsted to enforce through inspection. wait and see. I give it 2 or 3 years before there are people in your position posting on here that schools have been made to toughen up due to Ofsted inspection or because they want academy status.

Well the school was voted outstanding in 2008 so will only be having interim assessments from now on as outstanding schools don't get full inspections every four years apparently. So the attendance must have been good enough to get outstanding in every inspection before then. Of course they can change goals posts but given its high 90s % anyway I expect not, as like I say, people never abused the system before the rules came in.

Fiscal I was pointing out that even a holiday in this country is twice the price between last week of the school holidays and the week they return.

It is not just about going abroad.

annie people are fixated that this is about foreign holidays. it isn't its about taking time out with your children when you have no other option other than term time. just in case people missed it - 0.1% of the lessons missed at senior school are due to people taking holidays. which by my maths means that 99.9% of absence has nothing whatsoever to do with holidays, foreign or not.

Those saying that low income families will be hard hit, do you realise that these people can't afford a holiday even during term time.
It won't affect the really poor, it may even be slightly better for them. It can't be easy to see your friends disappearing for a weeks holiday while you are in school. Perhaps when most have had this time off it does have an effect on those whose parents can't afford a holiday.

Another point I have picked up on is people saying it is all right for activities and educated off site opportunities. Well apparently not anymore. Whilst some still allow a little time for this some are stopping altogether or cutting down.
My dds last school were very supportive of her missing a lot of school due to performing. We were recently told if she still attended school most of the opportunities would be gone now, except those organised by the LEA. It does seem like they are clamping down on more than holidays.

yes potatoprints. they are clamping down on everything. and as I have said before, schools which are currently being flexible will not be in the future. once the principle has been established that you don't get time off for anything ever, then it will spill over into this sort of thing. only private school educated kids in west end shows in the future!!

But the government has not said that you cannot have time off ever. They have simply removed the word holiday from the rules. Nothing else has changed. Head teachers are allowed to authorise if they believe its an exceptional reason. Some head teachers are scared what this means exactly which is why they have a blanket no to all requests but the law does say they can authorise. There's further info on this by some experts on the other school holiday thread.

People either just go unauthorised or teach their children to lie and say they were sick.

Our head is following the guidance and i dont think any have been authorised since September bar close family funerals. We were reminsed every newsletter that holidays in term time would not be authorised and were discouraged. The LEA has access to registers so they know who is off and the basic reason.

Heads have to be seen by Ofsted to be doing everything they can to get attendance as high as possible. I wonder how many parents who chose the school based on results and Ofsted then dont mind them being knocked down once their children are in?

I'm confused too, do the fines also apply to academy schools?

We have had 2 holidays this year and no fine as good attendance records usually.

fines apply to all state schools. not private. school holidays represent (depending on which expert you ask) 0.1/0.3% of absences in senior school. apparently you can appeal through the governors at school because the head should not be issuing a blanket ban but considering each on its merits. georgesdino - it will be a different story next year.

Jam toast-our local school was deemed Outstanding in 2008 (attendance was not the hot potato it is now then), it was then graded Good in 2011 and RI in 2013. Don't assume that because your school was Outstanding 8 years ago, under completely different criteria, that it will remain so.

I'm still confused.

I don't blame you Retro the rules are poorly defined and inconsistently applied. Its frankly anyones guess what will and won't be fined.

Starting to wonder if this gov can do anything without causing confusion and unfairness,thinks of CB,exams......

retropear. the problem is the words "exceptional circumstances" and head teachers discretion. once you start giving people discretion without direction as this rule change has done then everyone has a different definition of exceptional circumstances. some schools at the moment take a very broad view and there is a bit of the "I am alright my schools allow absences" on MN at the moment. which is all well and good until Ofsted start getting involved and start linking absences to grading of schools. if a school is told for example it can only be outstanding if it has x% absence then the head will soon change their view. the reason people have to fight it now is because whilst it might not be affecting everybody today, it will affect you in the future. if everyone lobbies their MP about it the time is ripe to get it changed. if we wait there is no chance.