To wonder why no one seems bothered by links to labour MPs + paedophile rights organisation?

[starlady]

The Mail has published new claims about Harriet Harman, Jack Dromey and Patricia Hewitt supporting The paedophile information exchange. Thought it was a rehash of an old story, but I've looked at the evidence published, and it looks as if harriet etc do have some explaining to do. I won't link to the Mail, but the Guardian gives a more nuanced point of view here

www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/feb/20/dailymail-harrietharman
What I'm finding puzzling is twitter is not bothered! And I haven't seen anything on mumsnet. Isn't anyone bothered? No wonder jimmy Saville et al got away with their actions. I am a labour voter myself, so I'm not trying to be partisan and stir up trouble, but the silence on this disturbs me.

He said he would do, but didn't want to upset his wife.

It was an exceptionally long piece and absolutely mind-boggling. The website says it'll be available to listen to again "soon".

I'm still reeling.

Yes claig I just heard that World at One piece. Astounding. I wonder if Harriet Harman has been so reluctant to fully apologise because there is more to come out and by doing so it will open up a huge time of worms. Nevertheless, I do think she is being badly advised and it is turning into a PR disaster for her, smear campaign or no smear campaign.

The broadsheets, Twitter and red top rags (with the exception of the Mail) may not be making much of it, but Radio 4 is covering it widely, and with insight, and only the other morning Harman got a grilling on the Today program.

I couldn't get over the advert in that awful magazine either. Hideous. Made my blood run cold.

Yes, great credit to the BBC for looking into this. Radio 4 and Newsnight have done a very good job. I thought the BBC might not want to look into it, but they have done a very good job.

claig was this today's World at One?

It's not available at the moment but I'm interested in listening to this. I shouldn't be so naive maybe, but I am just so shocked that there was ever in living memory, in this country, anything known as the Paedophile Information Exchange. Those words put together just make me wretch.

I find this all massively shocking.

Yes Radio 4's World At One

Really? I was annoyed last night when BBC TV news wheeled out Tessa Jowell to drone on about what a wonderful person Harriet Harman is.

Tom Watson OTOH was fab on the News At One yesterday.

Zippy some of us remember attending conferences where PIE had a stall promoting their cause.

falaaalaaa yes- I read the thread. Truly shocking.

There is definitely more to be unearthed, Harman wouldn't have twisted and turned like that on Newsnight if it was as simple as she's portrayed it.

At the very least I suspect it will become clear that she, Dromey et al turned a blind eye to some dodgy stuff in pursuit of their ambitions. HH has grasped the moral high ground so fervently and so often over the years, this petard hoisting really is karma.

Personally I think it was a different time, and we shouldn't judge then by today's mores, but I think that applies to all parties. But now the DPP's started this, the Media will finish it, it's too golden to ignore.

I disagree. There was no lack of scientific evidence about child development in the 1970s or 1980s. Psychology as a science had been going strong for a long time.

claig - it sounds exactly like today's Mail main story - yet another attempt to smear Harman - and the rest of the Labour party.

What's so unbelievable? Once we've got over the shock - as zippyswife says - of such a thing as the PIE existing and pushing itself out in the public eye, which it clearly did, and clearly its members weren't all arrested or put on a register as they would be now, what more is there to say?

Yes, the NCCL turned a blind eye, quite possibly deliberately - mostly before Harman ever got there. But SO DID EVERYONE ELSE INCLUDING THE POLICE, MPS ETC.

Are we going to blame all of them for not doing their jobs too?

The reality is that standards WERE different in the 70s.

It's all a pretty flimsy smear. Harman as legal officer would have had bugger all responsibility for putting adverts in other organisations magazines, and the Mail knows it. I'm sure their legal officer doesn't deal with recruitment or sales either. Gould has not been involved in politics for 2 decades. (He has lived in New Zealand since 1994 and is retired.) The only reason for bringing this up now is to smear the Labour Party and we both know it. And the only difference between us is you think that's a good thing because you're right wing.

BTW, was amused to see the Mail's article this morning. It refers to a "shocking" picture of a young boy with his legs spread wide wearing only a tiny pair of shorts. But in true Mail style, in case this information was not titillating and "shocking" enough, it kindly reproduced the picture for you, so you too could be suitable "shocked".

Picture from the PIE magazine. Am awaiting further "exposes" (hmm) of the contents of this "shocking" magazine so we all be suitably "shocked". Not for any other reasons. Oh no. Not at all.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2568850/Harmans-pressure-group-advertised-members-magazine-paedophiles-New-evidence-links-NCCL-PIE-Harriet-legal-chief.html

This is not about Harman. This is about PIE and the NCCL.

What contacts did PIE have and with whom and how could they be allowed to be affiliated to the NCCL?

Thanks fallalaa - as you can see, the Mail has helpfully captioned the picture "Sick: The NCCL ran a the appeal for members next to a picture of a young boy in what appears to be a PE kit"

If it's so sick, why the hell have they reproduced it?????

Anyone who can't see the hypocrisy is stupid beyond belief. They are actively supporting the paper that prints more dodgy shots of under-age kids than any other (legal) one these days. At least the naked women in the Star, Sun etc are all over 16.

Er, I grew up in the 70s and 80s and while sexism and racism was more common, under no circumstances was sex with children ever considered socially acceptable.

I cannot believe that any sensible person would use that as justification for the NCCL/PIE affiliation.

No, I am sorry but "The reality is that standards WERE different in the 70s" won't fly with me. It maybe true for anybody else, but for an MP, a DEPUTY LEADER, shadow deputy PM and whatever else she is now it is totally not acceptable. She is one of the most senior level politician and an MP for goodness sake. To pretend it is all "ok", well,... words fail me.

Certainly, the PIE are dodgy as hell. But entirely historical. So no point investigating the organisation now unless it actually committed crimes rather than encouraging its members to do so.

Clearly, it would be absolutely fascinating to have a look at their membership lists...

But I'm guessing that if the Mail has those it's keeping very, very quiet...

This is not about Harman or Labour. This goes much wider. The Mail published its pieces on its front page and was ignored by nearly all of the other media. I think the media hoped it would go away.

I agree with Labour's Tom Watson

"Labour MP Tom Watson said there were others who should apologise before Ms Harman.

“The shared shame of all the political parties is that they can do more - much more - to protect kids who face abuse,” he said.

Mr Watson claims the Conservatives tried to cover up the case of diplomat Sir Peter Hayman who was eventually jailed in 1984 for sending child pornography in the post.

He also points to allegations by former Tory MP Edwina Currie that a former aide to Margaret Thatcher, Sir Peter Morrison, who died in 1995, was protected by a “culture of sniggering” in Westminster despite being a “noted pederast”.

Mr Watson said the Lib Dems have “failed to explain how Cyril Smith could beat children and hire rent boys seemingly without anyone’s knowledge”.

“Harriet Harman can answer for herself why organisations like the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) were allowed to participate in the NCCL.

“But we’re not going to improve protections for children unless all parties unite over this issue,” Mr Watson said.

Ms Harman has come under fire from the Daily Mail after it emerged she worked for the National Council for Civil Liberties in the 1970s which had forged links with the PIE."

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tom-watson-tories-must-apologise-3183049

Let's hope the Mirror looks into what went on in other parties and more into PIE.

I really do think it's in the public interest for this to be openly investigated. As Tom Watson said (he's a Labour MP!), the victims, particularly those who were routinely abused in local council children's homes for years and years by people who felt fully entitled to abuse them, deserve to have their voices heard.

X post, claig!

Yes, the NCCL turned a blind eye, quite possibly deliberately - mostly before Harman ever got there. But SO DID EVERYONE ELSE INCLUDING THE POLICE, MPS ETC.

Are we going to blame all of them for not doing their jobs too?

Yes we blame them all and find out what their personal motivation was for ignoring it and turning a blind eye.

And trying to put Daily Mail in the spotlight is frankly a diversion tactic.

DM do not hold any legislative or executive powers. The way they conduct their business is a separate matter and in no way should be brought into the discussion about how senior politicians of whatever colour and ideological persuasion is allowed to get away with furthering the agenda of Paedophile Information Exchange. Whether it was now or some years ago. We should all know our "heroes"

Utterly utterly sickening.

It shows an absolute lack of moral compass. Is that what we want in our senior politicians? Really?