Struggling to maintain a relationship with best friend after this marriage split

[ViviPru]

Some of you might recall I started a thread a little while back when my best friend (BF) walked out on his wife (also a very close friend) and his 3y/o completely out of the blue. The way he did it was pretty brutal and heartless

Things have moved on apace, divorce has been filed (by him) and things have developed considerably with OW (although I only know this via very reliable third party). BF is still maintaining that his sole reason for leaving was that he was unhappy in the marriage, and is citing DW's unreasonable behaviour as causal. He is massively playing down OW situation, and only mentioned her to me once when he first walked out, saying there was someone he had feelings for, but did not expand.

In the weeks since, he hasn't made life easy for DW, cutting off household contracts without warning, being uncooperative about what to do with his things, claiming among other outrageous statements never to have loved her and making unfair and untrue claims about her behaviour during the marriage. I hear much of this direct from her. She only offers the information when I ask how things are going and is very matter of fact. I know her well and believe her at her word. I also have a reliable neutral source, and when cross-referenced, it all checks out. The neutral source has no agenda whatsoever, and confides in me as they find it so exhausting being BF's sounding board and I am trusted not to pass anything back to the DW (which I don't) My BF has made some very unpleasant general statements to this neutral source too regarding his take on the situation, attitudes that are in line with his behaviour when he's at his worst (selfish, thoughtless, impressionable)

He hasn't spoken to me a since the first week, last time we spoke it was left on amicable terms, I told him that while it was going to take me a while to come to terms with the situation, we were there for him. It's all gone a bit quiet in the intervening weeks. I think he's realised that while he may be much happier now, friends and family are reeling and struggling to get their heads around this very unexpected abandonment. I'm trying to keep my distance from the situation a bit for several reasons, firstly I find it all very upsetting, and secondly after letting people know we (Dh and I) are there for them I generally tend to give people space to work their own lives out. I hate drama and find people doling out advice on how others should live their lives to be futile and distasteful.

He's just called. I panicked and got DH to say I wasn't in. I don't want to talk to him. I don't even know if I can be friends with him anymore. I'm shocked at his behaviour, but I know if I tell him straight it will fall on deaf ears, and be to no avail (neutral source feels the same and just makes noises in the right places to BF) I don't think I can keep up the pretence though of being supportive and understanding. I don't really support what he's done and my understanding of the situation is very different to the one he's convinced himself of.

On the other hand I feel bereft that after around 15 years of friendship (through thick and thin and all the clichés) to be feeling this way.

AIBU to just avoid him for the time being? Gah

My ex and the OW treat me like I deserved it too - is hideous. I wouldn't wait around for his lightbulb moment either tbh. Is incredibly sad for you OP and your friendship. I am glad you are supporting the wife - it is times like this you find out who your friends are.

I don't think he will ever reflect on his behaviour as being unacceptable, as the way people like this live with themselves, is to convince themselves that what they did/are doing IS acceptable, given the circumstances.
I think you are trying hard to be a good friend to everyone, and that is commendable.
I have lived through a situation like the one you describe. I was, and still am, amazed that so few people ever say it like it is to the person who acts like the man in your friendship. I wish people did, and since my experience, I have had the opportunity to state my views to another couple who split up. I think the ideal situation is to say how you feel and the fact that you know what he has been up to, give him your opinion on it, let him hear it (even if he doesn't hear it as such!) and then , if you think you still want to be friends with him, move on and let it go. It's not your marriage or child, it's his, and the best you can do is to be there to help anyone who needs it. But don't collude with him in the Disney dream world he currently inhabits - you owe it to everyone in the situation to be straightforward now.

mumandboys I suspect that will very much depend on whether the new relationship with OW is sustainable or not. As long as the pleasure he derives from her is justifying his actions, he will perpetuate the skewed version of reality he has created for himself.

It's the dismissive, distasteful way he now speaks of and treats STBXW that I and a couple of others are finding so distressing, particularly as it is so at odds with his previous behaviour.

'One part of me feels that once he's in his right mind again he will reflect on his behavior as having been as unacceptable, but does he deserve the luxury of patient friends hanging around till then? But then it's not my place to punish him is it? Or is it? GAH!!! (Yes overthinking)'

He won't. You're not punishing him, you're just removing yourself from a twat.

There's no excuse for it, no matter how bad the marriage was, to fuck around, ditch for the shag and then treat your family like shit.

I think you're all right. He'll never admit to having been unreasonable, whatever happens.

I feel more empowered to handle any conversation which may arise now - thank you all so far for sharing your experiences.

it won't matter whether the relationship with the other woman lasts or it doesn't...he will still have told himself that he deserves to be happy and that he wasn't happy in his marriage because his wife's personality/behaviour wasn't up to scratch therefore it's fine to treat her like crap because she's a crap person and crap people don't deserve anything better. He will expect his friends to join in with his feelings - or at the very least, not express a different view. He won't change his mind and suddenly regret his behaviour - or if he does, it will be short lived (usually lasting as long as it takes from one relationship to end for another to start).

Ultimately, if you are best friends, there comes a point where you will need to welcome this woman into your life because you can't be best friends with someone without their partner. At least, I don't think you can? This is where you will have to make a decision about your loyalty - because if you are now friendly with and supporting the wife, I can assure you she will be betrayed all over again to realise you're 'friends' with them both.

He will expect his friends to join in with his feelings

Yes! When it first kicked off was really surprised when he found out the third party had been to see STBXW. Why wouldn't they, she's one of their best friends.

if you are best friends, there comes a point where you will need to welcome this woman into your life because you can't be best friends with someone without their partner

This is the bit I'm dreading. Just childish, immature fingers-in-ears-la-la-la-can't-hear-you blind hope that it all goes away and I don't have to deal with it.

He really does sound breathtakingly selfish. It would change the way I see a friend if I'm honest especially if they spoke dismissively of their wife. I think lying by ommission will start to stick in your throat and you will begin to resent him. He needs to be honest with you and you with him but that might take longer than you can tolerate.

We were in a similar situation when a very good friend left his pregnant wife for the OW. It was awful, and we've never spoken to him again. He behaved appallingly, demanding the new born baby spend over night contact with him so the OW could get to know them etc. he couldn't see that he'd behaved abominably.

My best mates have that status when they tell me I'm doing summat daft!

Admittedly it's never been anything as serious as what your friend has done to his family, usually it's more along the lines of "hun your bum DOES look big in that!". However I have had my moments at times and have cause to be very grateful that sometimes my friends are smarter than I am. Obviously as teens we needed to give each other the "wake up and smell the coffee" speech more than now in our forties. However every now and then someone still has to be stopped from doing something stupid.

It's not friendship to watch someone you care about crash and burn without at least trying to rescue them from their own foolishness. You can tell someone they are being a class A ijeet without taking sides, especially if you word it as being about the child's emotional security.

If your friendship has been as close as you say it has for 15 years then I honestly think you owe it to your friend to tell him you can't recognise his current behavior as being the fundamentally decent human being you have known for so long.

He will rewrite history & try and make himself the victim - pretty breathtaking. Is an utter shock when you find someone who you loved and respected is capable of such appalling behaviour. Sorry OP, it must be upsetting for you.

Could you say to him that while you believe him that he was unhappy and that you understand you will never know what went on behind closed doors, you don't really feel great about his solution ie taking up with an OW. Also that things are obviously currently much harder for his wife and so for now you will want to give her your support. Not that you support her over him, but that for now she needs you more, so it might be easier if he goes for his support to other friends who perhaps don't have the loyalty to his wife that you have.
Over time things may settle and it may be possible for you to be friendly with both - and more clarity may emerge about what really went on - but for now, go with your instincts and be a friend to the one who right now feels she's lost everything.

I think at the moment it sounds like he's living in a bubble of self-justification and delusion.

Right now, he's still probably just about reachable by you.

If you are his best friend and you tell him what a complete dick he's being and how appalling and unjustifiable his treatment of his wife is, he MIGHT listen.

There is a window here when you might get him to see sense and realise that this whole "adventure" is just bullshite.

If you leave it too late all you'll be left with is the kind of toe-rag who has destroyed lives all around him (including his own) and lives the rest of his miserable life trying to justify what he has done.

People like that are a tedious emotional vacuum.

Really, I can't see how your friendship with him can survive unless you can get through to him.

If he continues with this shitty behaviour, you are going to HAVE TO CHOOSE between him and his wife.

A good friend who has been shit upon vs. a good friend who is being cruel and hurting someone who is a friend?

Would you really choose him? And whatever silly bitch has abetted him in this cruelty?

I have never been in this situation, but in all honesty, you know he is lying about the small stuff - what makes you think he isn't lying about the big stuff?

I wouldn't be able to think about him in the same light ever again - seriously, he's your best friend and still feels the need to gloss over what he's done with all that bullshit?!

I think you should call him on it, see if you can have a serious, truthful conversation and take it from there. I don't think I'd be able to continue the friendship, but this isn't me.

Thank you all for really helpful, insightful posts that are each helping me get my head around it and find a way forward

Just to say, I have very definitely and clearly called my good friends on bad behaviour in the past. Not in a judgemental way, just in a "this is how I see your behaviour, this is how it makes me feel" sort of way. I have made it clear that I don't necessarily want to end the friendship but I'm not going to pretend I'm ok with how they've acted. In a couple of cases the person has gone on the defensive and so the friendship ended that way - interestingly, both of those people have been back wanting to renew the friendship.
In one case it made us much much closer and I feel we have a very special relationship because of it as we both feel free to be honest without fear of how the other will react.

You don't have the right to 'punish' him. But he is asking you to collude in his fantasy and you have every right to tell him he can feel what he likes but you're not going to reassure him he's done the right thing because he absolutely hasn't.

Are you talking to him anytime soon?

Yes, the way he is treating her and continues to treat her is pretty unforgivable - I mean if she was so awful and he is so pleased to get away then why be such a shit about it?

I would happily tell him you think hes behaving shoddily and that of course, durh, its affecting your friendship. I would focus less on the affair - (which he is still lying about) And try and get him to be kinder while moving forward. I wouldn't meet the ow until the exw is happier ie. in a long time.

I agree unhappiness/ow aside, what's his reason for treating his wife & by extension his child like shit?

ViviPru i have been in a really similar situation as you, in that the person who was my friend is someone who showed herself to be vile, greedy and untruthful.

The happy circumstance is that it was only through association with her STBExH that I have made a firm friendship with him. He is an absolutely lovely person, didnt deserve to be shafted taken to the cleaners by her, and as it is still going through the legal process I will try to keep it vague, but basically as far as my ex friend was concerned it is " how much can I stitch him up for"

Without me ever saying to her what my low opinion is of her and how vile I think she has behaved, she has already retreated and has kept a strategic distance so that she can carry on with the legal stuff, get what she wants and presumably be happy um I dont think so. It is clear to us that she couldnt care less what people think, she just wants the spoils of a relationship that she put a bomb under.

I wasnt in the slightest in a dilemma about the situation, I knew the gift of friendship with her Ex means more to me than she ever will. I would cross the street rather than look her in the eye. She knew exactly what she was doing all along, and for that, I wouldnt give her houseroom as a friend.

Sadly people expose their real character warts and all, and yes it does invariably mean that the fall out isnt just the divorcing couple, it involves family and friends too. Had my friend been decent and reasonable as a human being, I would not have walked away, but I have had no alternative.

Dont feel bad if you find that you have to walk away, your friendship probably is over, unless you feel wiling to turn a blind eye on all the things you have said in your post. Only you know your threshold of forgiveness.

I would not compromise your own principles, "we are known by the friends we keep" as my Granny used to tell me

You can learn things about good friends and change your mind about them. Hard to still feel close to someone whom you believe is acting really badly though. I think the only positive thing you can really do, is talk to him candidly about how you feel and how his behaviour appears. Listen to what he has to say, maybe it will help him stop being a dick and save your friendship. Tough call but I can't see you'll really be happy any other way - and it might do some good.