To think the NHS sells their data to accident claim companies?

[youarewinning]

A few years ago I visited A&E with my DS who had cut his lip open at school club on some equipment. A few weeks later I got a phone all from an accident claims company. I said no accident ended call and thought no more of it.

A few weeks ago I had an accident at work resulting in whiplash and a paramedic call out as I couldn't move and neck injury. Get another call today (same accident claims company and same heavy Indian accident) Again say no accident had and he asks if I'm sure

Just rung my dad as the penny dropped and he had the same company call him after he snapped ligaments in thumb whilst at ski centre which resulted in A&E trip and an operation.

AIBU to think once is co-incidence but to now wonder if the NHs sells it's data to accident companies for a cut of the claim money?!

that's right. these may be the charges but it doesn't mean any old Joe Soap can ask for information. It has to be an approved body. Your data won't be sold willy nilly.

I got knocked down by a car about 5 years ago and wass scrapped off the pavement by a copper, then taken to hospital in an ambulance and kept on a&e for a bit. I also presume the woman who knocked me over claimed on her insurance for the damage to her car.

hen got a deluge of calls from accident claims wankers all asking about the accident.

I haven't had these calls before or since. It is too much of a coincidence. Some twar somewhere sold the details to these sharks.

But YOU said Gin and I quote

Just to clarify, as far as I know there are no plans for the nhs to sell patient identifiable data to ANYONE

But I have posted the link to the price list where HSCIC have said it will be made available a fact that you cannot deny if you read the link.

Please also see this care-data.info/

and take particular note where it says

Insurance companies

The HSCIC also says that clearly identifiable (Red) data will, from Release 2 of care.data onwards, be available to insurance companies - as long as those companies promise that they will not use it "for the purposes of selling or administering any kind of insurance", and as long as their reason for wanting the data was "to improve NHS patient care".

There is no legal obstacle to the HSCIC releasing or selling information, whether in Green, Amber or Red formats, to insurance companies.
It has done so before (it has been selling HES data for years) and it will do again (with both HES and care.data).

Then you say they charge for providing information yes thats true its on the link I gave you but as that link proves in some cases this information will be patient specific

No-one has said I most certainly have not that you, I, Tesco or whoever can go on the website and buy that information (please take note of that EnlightenedOwl)

You have said they will provide that information within the constraints of the law - what law?? the law of today Feb 2014? what about the law in Feb 2015/2016/2017?

Who knew 20 years ago that it would be against the law to smoke in the work place, who knew 20 years ago that same sex marriages would be legal in 2014

Laws change and evolve, ethics change, technology changes so to say something will never happen because of the laws today, the ethics of today and the constraints of todays technology is crap and short sighted crap at that.

Someone does.

The only times that I have had personal injury claim calls to my home phone number, is when I have had to take one of my children to A&E after a serious [broken bones] injury.

you're scary Mrs D.

Surprise surprise, mrsdavidcaruso is on the scaremongering warpath again.

No gin I am realistic
McFox if I am scaremongering by posting links from a well respected GP a Caldicott Guardian and someone who actually knows what he is talking about, by posting links from HSCIC own sites showing that this data will be made available. Then thats fine I am not the only one

Is this link from the BMA scaremongering
web2.bma.org.uk/pressrel.nsf/wall/A996003CDF423CC680257C82003C9AC8?OpenDocument

Or this link www.telegraph.co.uk/health/nhs/10642740/NHS-admits-new-medical-records-database-could-pose-privacy-risk.html

There is no debating with a zealot, so I won't bother getting involved in your crusade again, I'd just rather make my point that you are scaremongering. All I'll get out of getting into a debate is mental exercise and I've quite enough of that today doing an interview on information governance in the NHS, so I'm quite clued up enough thanks.

Mrsdavidcaruso I am very cynical and have a deep distrust of everything the government say, but you are not distinguishing between what the current intention is and what dangers there might be.

Take that telegraph link. It doesn't say they are giving away your identifiable information. It warns about hackers and other malicious actions. It makes it clear that is is talking about illegal ways to access your information.

The BMA link also fails to back up the claim that they will be passing on identifiable information. They are actually in favour of this scheme.

The BMA continues to support the principle of using anonymized data to plan and improve the quality of NHS care for patients.

Their concern is an ethical one. That regardless of how anonymized it is the public should be thoroughly informed before it goes ahead.

Back I agree with the BMA BUT we are talking about THIS
Bespoke extract - containing personal confidential data
A one-off extract tailored to the customer’s requirements of specified data fields containing patient identifiable data, sensitive data items or both. That is from the HSCIC own site read it and see for your self they are saying they will do it

And yes this info can be hacked just like the SCR, the DVLA and your tesco club card but it is only a part of the problem.

Yes I am a zealot and I am glad I am I opted out in September well before this even hit the press so I am clued up far more than you McFox

Fact your private data will be uploaded without your consent and sold
in various formats including formats that identify you and including formats that can be cobbled together with other data bases to identify you.

Fact the laws governing what that data will be used for and who sees it will change once its up and running.

Fact GPs MPs the ICO are concerned about this
Fact Even the NHS England have agreed this has not been handled the right way
Fact There has been calls from various groups including MPS to stop this and have a public debate
Fact this was going to be done WITHOUT public debate or the right to opt put until people like the ICO got involved

So I will continue to scaremonger any way I can including helping someone the other days whose surgery would not opt her out as they didnt understand what care.data actually is and yes I am glad I did.

So I will continue to oppose this and help other people to opt out.

Mrsdavidcaruso, in the long run I wouldn't be surprised to find data being misused - isn't it always?, but if you want to stay credible you have to seperate things that are true now from things that might happen. Otherwise your concerns will be dismissed.

And remember that there are advantages too in sharing data.

Just for one example. Remember how people said that living near power stations/power lines made people sick? I read the other day that it's accepted now that it used to, but that it doesn't any more. Would be nice to be able to look up patterns of people/diseases in certain postcodes to see if it's still doing it.

There's far more to it than that and if we're going to give up on the advantages we need to be sure just what the disadvantages are and if they are really a problem.

I love getting calls from claims companies - I tell them I've just run to the window and my car seems fine and then go completely ditzy asking if everyone involved was ok and was Mrs Williams from down the road ok after she tripped over her cat and things of that nature. I once had them on the phone for 40 minutes before they put the phone down in disgust.

EvilIsAGiftTiggaxx

Know more than me? I remember you levelling the same accusation at a Caldicott Guardian last week. Its actually quite amusing that you think that you are better informed than the people who's job it is to facilitate clinical research in a safe, secure way and/or to protect the confidentiality of patients and their information. What you are in fact doing is twisting information to suit your own beliefs. Anyway, I really don't care to debate with you, I just want other people on this thread to realise that you are, by your own admission, scaremongering - i.e. using fear to frighten people and influence their opinions and actions towards some specific end.

Well yes actually I think I do you said - Yes or No? that and I quote yet again Just to clarify, as far as I know there are no plans for the nhs to sell patient identifiable data to ANYONE

Now you DID say that

yet I posted a link to the HSCIC own site which clearly states and I quote
Bespoke extract - containing personal confidential data
A one-off extract tailored to the customer’s requirements of specified data fields containing patient identifiable data, sensitive data items or both.

So what do you say to that apart from linking to the public side of HSCIC website?

As for me knowing more than the Caldicott Guardian who posted
time and time again I linked this care-data.info/

Open it look at the name of the GP and then come back and tell me what part of a GP and Caldicott Guardian in Hampshire that you do not understand, funnily enough the other poster never did answer me about that as it didnt fit in with her views do you find that GPs view amusing knowing that his job is also to protect the confidentiality of his patients - well do you???

If people say I am scaremongering because it suits their own purposes
to call me that rather then someone who has done their homework or like the other thread someone who is posting interesting information that people wanted to see then fine.

So Yes I don't give a monkeys chuff how important you think your job or that research pays your wages.

You do not even know MY qualification and job yet you assume that your job and your qualifications are superior to mine and yoiu have made that fact very clear

Back I am sorry we have to look at what the data will be used for in the future if we don't it will too late if anything it will make people think not just about their data but their childrens data

Oh and McFox just to put things in perspective my Sister is a Forensic Scientist she works for the met, the work she and her team do helps out some very nasty people behind bars, give justice to the victims and solace to their friends and family

Last year DNA evidence proved a suspect guilty, however his DNA also proved that he was responsible for other very nasty crimes, as he was never a suspect his DNA was never taken and never out on a data base.

Someone said to her that this incident proves that we should have a national DNA data base of everyone then the man would have been caught before he went on to commit further crimes.

She was horrified at the thought as she said at the time, yes it would have helped, yes it would have made catching him easier, but to take everyones DNA and put them on a Data base would be a serious brach of the rights of millions of people and she would fight against it if it was ever seriously discussed.

and BTW someone with her research capabilities and scientific background actually opted out of this scheme last year even before I did

I reckon it'll be your insurance company selling on details instead of the NHS - the insurance company would know about the accident (assuming you reported it) and they have the most to gain if you claim.

The NHS don't because of data protection laws, but the insurance companies certainly do

Very true.

I also get calls saying I'm entitled to PPI claims - but have never taken PPI out.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26291075
it seems some insurance employees have sold on data

A nurse in my local hospital was fired and charged by police for selling on patient details to an accident claims company, so if you believe the hospital are involved in these companies getting your private information then please contact them to complain.

That's interesting private. Although only 2/3 of the incidents have been treated in A&E. My latest was paramedic treated but I could go home high on entenox!

Well there you go. it has happened.
www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10656893/Hospital-records-of-all-NHS-patients-sold-to-insurers.html

My dh just came back and told me, and also pointed out that the idea of 'anonymising' this kind of data is a pile of sh*t. Think of births. Insurance companies now have a record of births by date in such and such a hospital - which of course has a limited catchment area. So they can then look up who the parents are easily from other public data. And now they have all the medical data supplied to hospitals for the purpose.

We've been literally sold down the river by "our esteemed leaders". I am livid. Who's up for revolution?

sleep It was always known that this had happened its just that it was done without our consent or knowledge hopefully the 6 month pause will enable people to make up their minds having ALL the details to hand not just the sanitised official version