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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that the Gvt should get its head out of the sand and declare a national emergency?

175 replies

Destinysdaughter · 10/02/2014 19:24

I fortunately do not live in any of the areas affected by flooding but bloody hell, if this isn't now a national emergency I don't know what is? Just been watching it on the news and the complacency from our so called leaders is staggering! What's it gonna take? The Thames is now breaking its banks. Will it take the Houses of Parliament to be flooded before they take it seriously and help people...?

And anyone who says this isn't to do with climate change is off their rocket! (IMO)

OP posts:
HollyMiamiFLA · 10/02/2014 21:40

Cutbacks affect the military. They affect the Environment agency. Police. Councils. NHS.

If you cut budgets by 10 - 20%, you lose things. Then when you need them, you have not got them.

The Big Society is great. But sometimes we need Goverment.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 10/02/2014 21:42

I'm concerned about the effect it will have on food prices amongst other things. That will affect us all.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 10/02/2014 21:45

what we need is a giant job lot of Weetabix. Itll kill two birds with one stone. 1/ it'll soak up all of the water 2/ the resultant cement like substance can be used to mend the roads...

OhYouBadBadKitten · 10/02/2014 21:47

What a good idea saggy. Genius in fact!

HollyMiamiFLA · 10/02/2014 21:47

ohyoubadadkitten

If it's food prices that worry you - then think about the grain harvest in the Mid West USA and in Russia. If that fails, that affects food prices.

RigglinJigglin · 10/02/2014 21:50

Music have you got most things upstairs?

Get binbags round your table legs and tape them, heavy things piled on the table. Lots of them to layer up round each leg.

Clear cupboards if you can, take up carpet.

Fill pots / pans with water for drinking and store upstairs. Fill flasks if you've got them. Get your food stored away (rats are a nightmare with floods).

Sorry if it's suggesting things you've already done!

OhYouBadBadKitten · 10/02/2014 21:51

Absolutely holly. I have friends in the states who are worried about food prices because of their unusual weather.

Mylittlepotofjoy · 10/02/2014 21:54

The price of vegetables will go up as all the fields around us are waterlogged . And yes saggy you are brilliant that is the perfect solution weetabix had to be good for something ;)

HollyMiamiFLA · 10/02/2014 21:54

And what happens in the rest of the world affects us.

This is what some people don't get about climate change. We need the rest of the world to supply food. If crops fail, prices go up. Our farmers will sell to the highest bidder - not necessarily to us.

So if the world climate gets wetter and more unpredictable, it affects us all.

LtEveDallas · 10/02/2014 21:55

Sorry, as you can imagine its a bit of a soapbox issue of mine at present. But not really helpful for people that are struggling.

On a point about river dredging, the following is a post from a FB page I have an interest in, they were talking about the usefulness of dredging and a chap posted something I thought was worth reading. He is talking about the River Severn into Worcestershire, but it would be relevant across the country I think:

"The weirs were placed into the river, as Richard said to set the depth of water. At the time it was because the river was a major trading route. But silt still gets deposited, so the presence of weirs is neither here nor there. The only exception to that I am aware of is Maisemore weir, which serves to break up the Severn Bore, enabling safe navigation upstream of Gloucester.

Dredging is extremely expensive, and creates a need for further dredging. In essence it's a case of fighting a battle that can never be won. You dredge, you speed up the flow. You speed up the flow, you enable the water to cause further erosion...which means more silt held in suspension and deposited wherever the flow slows enough.

The relationship between speed of the water and its ability to hold sediments in suspension needs to be taken into account. It is something of a double edged sword. If you double the speed of the water you increase its ability to hold particles in suspension by an order of magnitude, so speeding up the flow is a bad idea.

But conversely, slowing down the flow has the same effect... halving the speed means reducing the capacity to hold particles in suspension by an order of magnitude, so silt will be deposited in large quantities.

This is, in essence an historic time bomb we have made for ourselves by "managing"our rivers. Most people have no idea what an entirely natural river looks like, because I'm not aware that we have any left here. They tend (in middle and lower reaches anyway) not to have banks as we know them. They have wetland margins, gradually shallowing and becoming dry as you move further from the main channel. Wetland was drained over most of Britain for various reasons.."improving" land, gaining better access to fisheries and so on. But wetland is just about the best flood management regime you can have.

We have now reached a point where we seem to seriously believe that we can entirely dictate terms to nature. So large portions of the Severn are bounded by revetted banks... well pretty much all of it actually.. and we seem to think that by rights the river should bloody well do as it's told and stay in its bed. But Sabrina has other ideas. Natural rivers when viewed over time don't have such neatly defined courses. Big flooding events will always happen and whilst there is nothing we can do to stop the rain from falling, or the tides from surging, we can stop deluding ourselves. We're still building on flood plains... how dumb is that?

It's worth bearing in mind that flood defence procedures CAUSED the disaster called Katrina. Not the hurricane..that was going to happen anyway. But what happened to New Orleans. Many of the suburbs that flooded were at levels BELOW that of the riverbed, and that was caused by flood defences. In that river, defences were built higher, and given the scale of the task of dredging they couldn't keep up with it. And this sort of flood defence only works if groundwater cannot penetrate and as long as any physical obstruction to the water is 100% secure. One small leak and experience shows that 100% of the defence is pointless.

The best flood defence is the regeneration of wetland and planting appropriate native trees upstream. Such measures have been shown to be highly effective and virtually maintenance free.
But floods will always happen.

ColouringInQueen · 10/02/2014 21:57

Really interesting article in the Guardian by my dbro's lecturer whose supposed to be v wise....

living with floods

RigglinJigglin · 10/02/2014 21:59

LtEve that is spot on, revegetation is absolutely vital. That, and the being prepared for a flood.

hiddenhome · 10/02/2014 21:59

When we were flooded, nobody gave a fuck. The fire service just sat there in their fire vehicles and the council just walked around looking at all the water Sad

The Red Cross did want to help us, but the council refused to allow them in Angry

We were just left to get on with it and it was very traumatic and not something I ever want to go through again. Even the neighbours just ignored the affected houses/people and a few elderly people's families didn't even bother showing up.

It was like it had never happened Sad Nobody even offered us a cuppa or a hand with the kids/pets.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 10/02/2014 22:04

I am so sorry that you were let down by so many people hiddenhome :(

HollyMiamiFLA · 10/02/2014 22:07

I remember reading an article many years ago about the loss of trees and vegetation upstream and the effect on water as the trees etc slow the passage of water into the streams and rivers.

If you remove vegetation, when it rains, it's much easier and quicker for water to enter the streams.

SueDoku · 10/02/2014 22:45

Very interesting article on dredging here www.monbiot.com/2014/01/13/drowning-in-money/

scaevola · 10/02/2014 23:05

Dredging, and everything else that could/should have happened over the preceding years is a side issue right now.

These storms are the worst for hundreds of years (or was that hyperbole in the news?) and what is needed right now is a coordinated response in the areas that have been declared emergency zones. Yes, the military will part of this (though in their leaner form, they're not goingto be able to work miracles), as will all other emergency services and volunteers (I saw a nice piece about a building firm working for free shoring up something).

COBRA (the acronym for Cabinet Office Briefing Room A) is simply a mechanism for getting all the right people round one table quickly. Good coordination, and focus on what needs to be done now will be the key until the storms abate. Then the focus can switch to longer term planning and dredging and whatever - always remembering that the next bad storm won't be like this one, and could hit other places.

DowntonTrout · 10/02/2014 23:22

The Environment Agency says that approximately 850 homes have been flooded.

Somerset council says 150 homes are flooded around 40 of these on the levels.

The govt will do more to protect built up areas and less in rural areas as flooding costs the country more revenue in towns than it does in the countryside.

OldMacEIEIO · 11/02/2014 00:31

I dont understand why people are bringing climate change into the equation. Flood plains are called flood plains for a reason. they flood.

Plus the IPCC and the met office said our winters would get drier due to 'climate change'

not wetter

pamish · 11/02/2014 01:27

Wherever you are, the Environment Agency map of flood warnings is sobering reading. Fifty miles from the sea isn't necessarily bone dry. I find I'm two streets away from a secondary warning zone, and I'm a mile from the river. Maybe it's like rats being always ten feet away, all of us are but two streets away from a flood zone, if not actually in it.

Climate change effects are just beginning. They will get worse. After this episode is over, there will just have to be some shifted priorities. For a start, look very carefully at all those plans to slap up another million homes any old where. Reverse the design of houses - build them upside down. Bedrooms, with solid floors and cheaper furniture, on the ground floor. Living rooms and kitchens above, with their more expensive and heavy equipment. All power points to be at least 1 metre high (should do that anyway for access). No idea how to design sewage so it exits beyond the area of flooding.

There are devices to stop or at least reduce the ingress of water, not cosmetic sandbags. B&Q, goddess bless their little entrepreneurial socks, has a whole web page of them. Door guards, things to block airbricks, inflatable gadgets - let's get them made here, by the millions, at cost, and distributed ahead of the next event. (I can't help thinking £300 for a 85cm plastic slab with clever brackets, is a bit OTT.)

Despite cuts and recessions and all the other excuses, there are some things that just have to be paid for. The money is there. It will take years but planning a proper river system, with meanders and trees upstream, is the only long-term answer.

.

pamish · 11/02/2014 01:42

Here's a handy map of where to live in the British Isles after the ice caps have gone. Sandbags of limited use by then.

.

Bowlersarm · 11/02/2014 06:54

That looks frightening, pamish. It seems very extreme over a relatively short period of time. Hope it doesn't all go pear shaped quite so quickly.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 11/02/2014 08:12

scaevola - it wasnt hyperbole. In parts of the south it was the wettest January since accurate records began 240 years ago. It was one of the wettest Decembers, despite being dry for the first 2 weeks. Time will tell where Feb will sit.

NorthernLurker · 11/02/2014 08:25

My neighbour and I have small front gardens. Mine has a flower bed and grass. When it rains all that absorbs water run off. My neighbour paved hers over for more car parking. When it rains the rain goes straight off in to her drain. Nothing there to hang on to it at all. Multiple that by several million........

LtEveDallas · 11/02/2014 09:20

After yet another night of constant rain I now have a stream flowing at the edge of my garden.

It's not normally a stream, it's normally a ditch that separates us from the farmers grazing field next door. It's about 6 foot from my back door and 3 foot from the garage. DH is going to try and pile up some of the stuff in our garage today in case it overflows. Typically our garage is full of new stuff ready for moving, so that's all going to have to come inside.

More worryingly is the fact that we are now seeing rats almost constantly. Their habitat is flooded and they have moved into the trees overhanging our garden. I'm creeped out and scared they are going to try to come in or move in with the rabbits, and the dog is a wreck trying to get to them. Seriously considering borrowing an airgun.

I really feel for those people who have been suffering this for weeks and months. Our garden is waterlogged, but thats just an inconvenience, I'm not going to lose my home.