To give these responses when my Swedish inlaws tell me how terrible reins are?

[ikeaismylocal]

Ds is a very active hooligan 13 month old. I was at a family gathering today and my dp's uncle said "it is contraversial but some blind parents use leads with their samll children!" I explained that in the UK leads (reins) are a pretty common parenting aid. My dp's uncle and aunt are blind and dp's aunt told a terrible story about how her ds was holding her hand and was spooked by a bus and ran off over a main road, she sat on the floor shouting what had happened and a passer by found her son and returned him to her, after that day they used reins, but it was clear that the family disaproved.

I said that I was thinking of getting some for ds as he is a really confident walker but he can't be trusted to not run away.

Their argument was this;

It limits your childs freedom
The alternative is sitting in the pushchair (Swedish kids stay in the pushchair until 4/5/6 I know a 7 year old who's parents push him about in a pushchair, he has no disabilities. Parents often buy a special big kids pushchair) The child being in a pushchair has no freedom, surely it is better to have limited freedom than no freedom.

leads are for dogs
Ds loves dogs, seeing a dog makes his day.

Ds will think he is a dog!
I don't believe ds has reasoning skills developed enough to think the dog has a lead, I have reins therefore I am a dog. Even if he did think like this he is just as likely to think I have brom hair, the dog has brown hair, therefore I am a dog. Ds doesn't know any of the cultural attitudes that we have about dogs.

Even if ds thinks he is a dog I have never met an adult who still thinks they are a dog because of early reins use.

It is wrong to restrin him
I pointed out that they strapped their kids into prams, highchairs, cars, kids living in cities can't be free range, it isn't safe.

Wibu I give these replies? They didn't end up convinced.

[MothratheMighty]

'I know lots of people in uk, sweden and norway (where I'm from), that use reins on their kids. The majority I know do not and find it a bit silly, which is also the camp I'm in along with my english OH. '

Littleen, I agree that it shouldn't spill over into a cultural stereotype, but I'd love you to come back in three years time when your PFB has been running around for a few years and tell us if you still disapprove of reins, and what methods you substituted to keep your children safe from traffic and getting lost.
Especially if you end up with a runner,or two?

[solveproblem]

WestieMamma, I'm experiencing the exact same thing in the UK as you are in Sweden. People in the UK often think I'm odd and have strange beliefs. I don't mind anymore but was really struggling with it to start with and felt people were incredibly narrow minded.

When you have moved to a new country and survived the initial culture shock, you tend to forget that the people around you have often NOT experienced two cultures first hand and therefore think their way is the right way just because it's the only way they know!

[ikeaismylocal]

I find that the difference between Sweden and the UK is that in the UK there are different parenting styles, in the UK I know people who have followed gina ford, people who call themselves attatchment parents, people who vaccinate, people who don't, people who only feed their dc organic unprocessed food and people who take their kids to mc donalds regulary.

There doesn't seem to be the variation of parenting styles in Sweden, on the whole is leans towards what people in the UK would call attatchment parenting, but people tend to do the same thing and it is just called parenting. There are never discussions about parenting at groups I go to, there is just a way to do things and everyone seems to do it!

[ShadowFall]

YANBU. I agree completely with your reasoning.

Reins do restrict a toddler's freedom, but far better that than them running into the road and getting hit by a vehicle.

And reins are far less restricting than a pushchair. DS1 is almost 2.5yrs, and hates going in the pushchair. If you try to put him in a pushchair, regardless of how tired he is (unless he's actually asleep), he will scream and fight against it with all his might, and insist that he wants to walk. He's absolutely fine with wearing reins, because he knows that he'll get to walk with those on. And he's showing no signs of thinking that he's a dog.

We're trying to teach DS1 about road safety when we walk alongside roads with him, but so far he's nowhere near having enough road sense to be trusted off the reins near a road.

[MothratheMighty]

It also depends where you live and what you are used to.
My cousins came down for a first visit to London when I was in my 20s, they'd never seen a traffic light or a dual carriage way and they found walking in the city impossible, because there were other people and crowds that stopped them loping everywhere. The underground, the noise levels, the way that one would stop to window shop without warning.
One week of shepherding them and I was a wreck. They were in their late teens.

[TeamWill]

It only takes one near miss to convince parents that reins are a good idea - especially if you have a baby and 2 toddlers.
They are rarely used for very long .
My DD decided to be a pony when the reins were on

[solveproblem]

ikeaismylocal, that is not true and a very sweeping statement. Maybe you don't know that many Swedes yet and that's why you think everyone's streamlined?

Go on to familjeliv.se and you'll see that there's a wide variety of parenting styles and that the parenting debate is very much alive in Sweden.

[cory]

I can only repeat that my Swedish mother thought it a bizarre example of conformism that all the British people she knew should agree on the benefits of all children wearing exactly the same clothes to school.

Often what we think of as parenting and conformism is culturally guided.

[solveproblem]

I can stereotype too:

All UK parents:

• Let their DCs sit forward facing from 9 mo
• Think sandwiches are a nutritious lunch
• Would rather go to soft play than go to the woods to play
• The father should always work full time and be the main provider and only the mother should get the opportunity to choose if she wants to continue working or stay home with the DC's

Now this might be UK parents, or something specific to the south east, this town or just my social circle. But I'll choose to claim ALL British parents parent this way.

[surroundedbyblondes]

Another one living in Sweden with DC

We never used reins because we never seemed to need them where we live (rural, quiet, lazy DC probably )

But I totally get what you describe about the 'one size fits all' parenting. There is very little active choice, people follow the herd and that's fine if it works for them but people can be very judgemental/defensive if you decide to do it differently. I find that we have a good understanding with our friends & neighbours on how we might make different choices but it's the odd acquaintance (think DHs school friends or other random parents at the school gate - people who we don't really socialise with or who know us well) who find it fair game to pass quizzical comments over the things that we do that are clearly different (eg. DD2 napping indoors in bed at times rather than always in her pram)

Trouble was I quickly felt that I didn't fit in with the british expat parents either because DD2 did sleep in her pram sometimes, in the rain and snow.

What I struggle with was the preachy 'our way is clearly better' attitude that many people have here. It pervades most things from pregnancy to school attendance and everything in between. Very conformist, almost brainwashed I have to say. I know one friend confided in me very conspiratorially that she had started to give her 5 month old a bottle as her milk supply was running out. She hadn't dared to tell anyone else as it was so expected to breastfeed here for a longer period.

I am a huge fan of the system here and it has given my whole family great support and structure (before clicking on MN, I just spent 5 minutes applying for 2 days of state benefits to cover the days I spent home from work with sick kids last week. I'll get paid part of my salary and it's a totally authorised absence from work) So I'm not going to start bashing the Swedish system. But that feeling of being an outsider, feeling criticised was so defining of my first months here. I remember it so well and I am glad I maintained the confidence to take the choices that were right for me and my DDs.

[ikeaismylocal]

The difference with school uniform is that there are many English people who think school uniform is a daft idea and I have had interesting discussions about the pros and cons of uniform with my friends, discussions don't seem to happen about parenting here.

I think my opinion is maybe skewed as I grew up in an area that was very alternative so I'm used to all different parenting styles, perhaps I'd have the same experience of conformity if I lived in a large UK city.

I'm not saying that all Swedes are conformist, I think that eccentricity is not celebrated and many people strive to blend in and be lagom, my experience is that the area of Sweden I live in and the Swedes I know are more conformist than the area I came from in the UK trying to find the right navy blue Volvo in a busy carpark is a bloody nightmare

The positives really do outweigh the negatives. I am fond of my Swedish friends and there seems to be little judging regarding parenting choices ( besides my in laws, but they are a special bunch).

I suppose a simalar discussion could possibly happen in the UK regarding sleeping outside, if it is a very rare thing and you want to do it it is harder to explain your choice to other people. I think that the reaction to reins in Sweden is a gut reaction and they havnt logically thought it through, the same as sleeping outside in snow in the UK.

[YoureBeingASillyBilly]

Well my ds has never been in reins or seen them i dont think yet he regularly tells me he's a dog and hooks our dog's lead to his belt loops.

Make of that what you will!

[HazleNutt]

I live abroad. Whenever PILs wonder about some parenting decision I have made, I just claim that it's done this way in my culture. They can't really argue without insulting my home country and customs. Result.

[surroundedbyblondes]

Do you have a navy blue V70 ikea? So do we! Guess we fit in better than we thought

[NoodleOodle]

What would the staple packed lunch item be in Sweden please solveproblem?

I never thought sandwiches were particularly appetising but (10yrs ago) when DD was at primary school, it was what I was expected to send her in with.

[puffinnuffin]

We went on holiday to Italy last summer. Whilst walking round large crowded cities people were literally pointing and laughing at my DS and I as he was on reins. One old lady even came up to me and starting shouting, screaming at me whilst pointing at the reins. It was awful and really embarrasing! However I would still rather have my DS on reins than lost in a busy city.

[ikeaismylocal]

Yep navy blue v70, I regularly can't find the right one.

The kids here all have free school dinners noodle, when they have to have lunches for the summer school I worked at the kids had resteraunt quality food, they each had different thermos flasks with warm food in. These kids often arrived in a pushchair but then ate these really fiddly yummy lunches that you'd not usually associate with a kids lunch in the UK. I used to feel envious sat there with my sandwich!

[HazleNutt]

yes the reason for pushchairs is that the parents with a DC in pushchair travel free on public transport. I bet there would be a bunch of 15-year olds in pushchairs if that was the case in the UK.

[NoodleOodle]

Do they have to be in the pushchair? Or, (as my thrifty mind thinks) could you have the child in reins and your shopping in the pushchair?

[NoodleOodle]

And, thank you for the explanation ikea :)

[Basketofchocolate]

I had what the shop assistant in Mothercare called 'a bolter' when I looked for reins.

An early walker is a dangerous thing -all the speed with non of the sense.

But, with reins he had far more freedom than if I'd strapped in a pushchair - only other option. He barely used a pushchair growing up - far more freedom. They were not what I wanted and did feel a little like I was walking a dog sometimes (and hated that) but he learned more quickly about road sense cos he was out there doing it instead of sitting in a pushchair.

[TamerB]

It is a huge mistake to think you have to explain or justify, you really don't. Smile, nod, say, 'really' and ignore.

[tanukiton]

I had leads I loved them. They were powder blue with wild horses on them. I think they had been my brothers. When I was too old for them I still wanted to wear them. 'Clip clop clip clop NEIGHHHHH' down the road to the high street and the shops..... Still have the memories.... Just saying

There is a back pack monkey. it has a lead/ tail attached to it.

[ikeaismylocal]

The child in theory has to be in the pushchair, but often it's just shopping in there. I have on more than one occasion seen people get on the bus with no child at all just a pushchair! Those people are never Swedish though.

[redexpat]

I'm across the bridge in Denmark. DS has reigns. I don't use it all the time, but if we are in teh shopping centre or walking down the road, or at the market in our village that attracts 250 000 one weekend a year. I et a lot of double takes, but they usually smile. I've never had any negative comments, only positive and I was sooo busting for a fight.

I don't know how long you've lived in Sweden, but I readched a point about a year ago of not giving a flying fuck what any danish person thinks of me. It's been SO liberating. I'm so much happier, and I'm not anymore or less excluded for it.