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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to laugh? Immigration minister resigns over employing illegal immigrant...

46 replies

WidowWadman · 08/02/2014 17:08

Mark Harper, the guy who came up with the racist vans quit bwahahaha

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WidowWadman · 08/02/2014 18:14

interesting analysis

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Misspixietrix · 08/02/2014 18:15

Employers are not actually obliged to see documents every employer I have been under has asked for my passport driving license and birth certificate. I'm white British. The same was asked of my ExH. Who is a Legal Immigrant. Anyway I do apologise in being wrong if the news coming out now is true. Apparently she was self employed.

honestpointofview · 08/02/2014 18:16

NoArmani - Not sure he will have to pay the fine as he may have a statutory defence if he kept copies of the documents he took copies of.

WidowWadman · 08/02/2014 18:17

In his resignation letter he said he doesn't have/couldn't locate these copies.

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Misspixietrix · 08/02/2014 18:18

Er if you think its a PA then report to HQ. Otherwise I will post what I like.

MrsBW · 08/02/2014 18:19

The employers themselves would generally insist on it, honest e.g. a multinational with offices everywhere would insist on their local HR staff checking and recording copies of what they've seen.... Just as misspixies experience has been.

MrsBW · 08/02/2014 18:19

I didn't mean personal attack.

I meant passive aggressive.

honestpointofview · 08/02/2014 18:21

MissP - every sensible employer asks for them so they have the statutory defence but they it is not an offence in itself not to ask for proof of the right to and take copies. If you don't but then ask someone because you think they might not have the right to work (because of their race) you then might face a race discrimination claim.

honestpointofview · 08/02/2014 18:23

Mrs BW - Agreed. That is the sensible route and I always advise clients to do so. It avoids a lot of pain and a possible fine.

Misspixietrix · 08/02/2014 18:23

If she was self employed. I'd be interested to know the Ins and Outs. Like if she was being paid cash in hand for example.

bochead · 08/02/2014 18:24

classic!

Can Gove be forced to resign for a greater level of incompetence over education now?

Misspixietrix · 08/02/2014 18:34

I'm guessing not bochead

BackOnlyBriefly · 08/02/2014 18:54

He could be lying that he saw a passport and other papers, but if they existed then I don't see what he did wrong. According to the link to 'Penalties for employing illegal workers' you are supposed to check by looking at the papers. It even gives you sample documents so you know what they look like.

BackOnlyBriefly · 08/02/2014 18:56

Oh and I am shaking my head at someone feeling sorry for the criminal who broke our laws to come here.

WidowWadman · 08/02/2014 19:55

If her only crime is being an undocumented immigrant, of course I feel sorry for her.

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BackOnlyBriefly · 08/02/2014 20:00

The term you are looking for is illegal immigrant.

Unless you call an intruder you find in your house in the middle of the night an undocumented tenant. Grin

WidowWadman · 08/02/2014 20:16

back I guess we've got differing views on immigration. Pointless to continue.

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Misspixietrix · 09/02/2014 07:54

Also the risk of a race discrimination claim. Although possible would be highly unlikely. Otherwise all the application forms that ask "Do you have a right to work on the UK" could be brought into question under that theory.

MrsAMerrick · 09/02/2014 08:20

In my job I often need to check if people have the right to work in this country. The minimum I would expect to see is an EU passport plus proof of NI number. If the person is from outside the EU then I would expect to see their passport, proof of their NI number plus a letter of authority from the Home Office stating that they have the right to work / working visa (or equivalent).

If you have copies of all this documentation then you should be covered if it turns out that something is wrong. I imagine it is easy for people to get hold of fake letters from the Home Office stating they have the right to work, and I don't know what the employer's position would be if it subsequently turned out that was a fake. I don't think it would be realistic to phone the Home Office every time you employed someone who provided these documents.

Surely the NI card is hardest to fake, in that if they provide a fake NI number that is picked up the first time you register them with thevtax office as a new employee? And you wouldn't employ someone who didn't provide proof of their NI number would you? Unless of course he was employing her cash in hand, which is a resigning matter in uts own right....

Misspixietrix · 09/02/2014 08:59

A Journalist on Twitter said she was self - employed so I'm going with the Cash In Hand theory myself.

WidowWadman · 09/02/2014 10:52

MrsAMerrick - I didn't have an NI number when I first started working in the UK, as I found work long before I had my interview for the NI. My EU identity card was enough evidence of my right to work in the UK, but until I hat the NI number I was on an eye watering emergency tax code, but that was a matter of weeks, not years.

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