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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be angry about attendance charge from school

562 replies

HidingInTheBathroom · 07/02/2014 15:36

I am very upset at the minute. Received my fine today for taking my children out of school four days before they break up for Christmas.

Me and my husband have received a £60 fine for each child for each parent.

We are being charged more for being a couple. Which I think is wrong. The last week of school they only watch films and went to a pantomime. Oh and had a school disco. The holiday was far more educational than watching films and family time is hard to come by with work.

When I have requested a meeting with the head teacher I have just got a mouthful of abusive from the receptionist.

OP posts:
Frogbyanothername · 08/02/2014 15:45

...aren't Headteachers accountable to the Governors? Whatever policy the Head implements has been put in place by the GB, and is monitored by them, isn't it?

It's quite worrying that the judgement of Headteachers is considered so poor by parents who place their DCs in the charge of the very Headteachers they have so little confidence in!

Honeysweet · 08/02/2014 15:54

Quite TheGruffalo2.

You seem to be an all or nothing poster Frog.

There are in betweens in life.

Headteachers are not infallible etc .
That doesnt mean they are all incapable either!

Frogbyanothername · 08/02/2014 16:01

The accountability is already there - but doesn't meet the expectations of OP and other posters - who believe she has the right to question the rumoured outcome of another families school absence.

Even telling the OP that the headteacher did believe that there were exceptional circumstances breaches that families confidentiality - it reveals that there are issues that are not publicly known.

It is not for parents to question the judgement of the Head teacher, it is up to the governing body, which includes representation of the parent community, to do that.

If a parent has so little confidence in state education provision that they wish to personally be assured of the reasoning behind a decision relating to a different family, then perhaps it's not the right education provision for them?

revealall · 08/02/2014 16:12

You can't appeal a fine though, governers or not .

Perhaps a system that relies on one persons judgement without recourse,
not the right education provision for any of our children.

amimagic · 08/02/2014 16:13

There have been campaigns

petition link

Over 200,000 signatures and no one governmental seems to care.

Frogbyanothername · 08/02/2014 16:19

Isn't it the LA, via the EWO, who actually decide and issue fines, though? The School/Headteacher refers the absence/lateness to the EWService in line with school policy (as agreed by the GB), and the EWService make the decision based on the info provided?

Or have I totally misunderstood the system? Are schools issuing Penalty Notices, now?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/02/2014 16:29

You can't appeal a fine though, governers or not

Parents can quite easily appeal a fine by simply refusing to pay, waiting for it to get to court and trying their luck there. Of course they'd have to face the possibility of losing ... and doubtless that would be considered "unfair" too

Trouble is, for a few folk the definition of being fair is "give me what I want" - anything else simply won't be accepted

morethanpotatoprints · 08/02/2014 16:38

Parents have choices in their dcs education though.
If you don't agree with the law, policies and procedures that are the state system you have other choices.
Nobody is saying you have to let Gov dictate how you educate your dc, as was suggested up thread.

Frogbyanothername · 08/02/2014 16:46

Ah, but potato for most parents the other ways of educating their DCs aren't viable so the expectation is that the state will provide a Service which suits them (or allows them to pick and choose which bits they opt into) - and which doesn't have pesky rules and conditions that have to be followed.

The same arguments come up time and time again - I want my DC to be educated by the state, but I don't agree with the policy on uniform, lateness, attendance, curriculum.......I want my child to be treated differently.

revealall · 08/02/2014 16:51

Frogbyanothername
From the government website

"Who is authorised to issue penalty notices?

A police constable, local authority officer, headteachers and those authorised by them (deputy and assistant head only).

All state schools can use penalty notices including maintained, academies, Free Schools, alternative provision and pupil referral units in England. The local authority must publish a local code of conduct which sets out how the penalty notice scheme will work for all schools in the area."

ChocolateWombat · 08/02/2014 16:57

I'm not really interested in the debate about whether fines are right or not, as its been done to death. Im interested in what all this shows about attitudes displayed when things don't go our way.

I think various posters have hit the nail on the head. Some people want to receive a state funded education and any other benefits the state may give them, but they want it all on their terms. Whenever things don't suit them, they point the finger and find someone to blame. It never even seems to occur to some people that they could ever have contributed to whatever the consequence is. And if it did vaguely occur to them, they would never say so, but still find someone else to blame, because that is what they always do....and teach their children to do it too.
So the parent who says that the fine is unfair and wants to complain about the receptionist, as a way to vent their anger at the school, is also likely to be the parent who disputes any kind of sanction applied to their child and to tell their child to resist it too, and tell the, 'teachers can't do that to you.'
We need to learn to take responsibility for our actions and accept the consequences. One of which, is if we break the law, we may face a fine. We don't have to like it, but we should be able to accept that in the eyes of the law, we have done wrong. Sometimes we do just have to put our hands up and say 'fair cop guv'

GTA5MASTER · 08/02/2014 17:00

It's not like you didn't know it would happen.
You break the rules you pay the fine get over it.

ChocolateWombat · 08/02/2014 17:02

Yes, a mature grown up recognises when they have done something with a consequence. It's usually toddlers who jump up and down and behave in an unreasonable manner, which is what blaming someone else is akin to.

Innogen · 08/02/2014 17:03

School isn't optional.

lljkk · 08/02/2014 17:04

That's incredibly black and white thinking, Chocolate.
Like most immigrants I don't even understand half the benefits that might be available to us. I just want to keep family links alive.
I'll pay the Fucking Fine but I reserve the right to Bitch about it.
And yes I've signed several petitions. And I'll chew Norman Lamb's ear off about it too, if I ever get half a chance.

ChocolateWombat · 08/02/2014 17:10

Lljkk, I'm referring to appoint of principle, which occurred to me after reading the OPs post. The fines thing is just an example.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/02/2014 17:13

Im interested in what all this shows about attitudes displayed when things don't go our way

So am I, Chocolate, but as I've said before I've yet to see any of the "blamers" really address this point; generally all you get is a "yes, but ..."

He11y · 08/02/2014 17:13

Crikey!

I bet you lot would queue to kiss the PM's feet, wouldn't you?

Never mind, roll over and give away all your rights but by the time you smell the coffee it will be too late.

Baa!

He11y · 08/02/2014 17:16

Divide and conquer.

Be good girls and boys now and blame those who aren't blind to the real issues here.

Meanwhile, more of your rights will be eroded from under your little sheepy noses - just as they planned it.

Frogbyanothername · 08/02/2014 17:17

revealall I know they can, that has been the case for years, what I'm asking is if they are, as that would be a change in practice, iykwim?

Are schools still working with LAs/EWOs rather than acting autonomously?

Has anyone had a fine from their DCs school, rather than the LA? Who issued the OPs fine, for instance?

Honeysweet · 08/02/2014 17:34

I would urge people who dont like how their school is run to think about joining the Governors. That is what I did. Governors have more power than you would think.
Dont know about the current policies on the fines. Not sure who has the discretion.
But yes, a Head has to work with Governors.

So op. If you think something is amiss at your school, and you dont get anywehere with the Head, take the matter to Governors. Write a letter to the Chair of Governors. There are probably about 12 school Governers in all. And assuming there is nothing amiss there, they can decide whether the Head has acted appropriately. They may not be able to tell you why the other parents were not fined, but hopefully they can put your mind at rest as to why you had a fine and they did not.

ChocolateWombat · 08/02/2014 17:48

Good advice Honey.
OP do you think you will do that? Or are you still looking to see the Head to complain about the receptionist? I just wondered if you feel like you need a fight, to vent your anger about the fine?
I should think a nice polite letter requesting information will be much more helpful. You could copy the Head in if you wanted to.

pumpkinsweetie · 08/02/2014 17:48

Totally agree HE11!
I certainly wouldn't kiss the pms arse cheeks, as they are most possibly fetted and since he was in charge our rights as humans seem to have disapeared!

Misspixietrix · 08/02/2014 17:51

How is the Head meant to use discretion when it is out of their hands Confused.

pumpkinsweetie · 08/02/2014 18:07

Exactly Miss the head's cannot use discretion anymore quite simply because of the government.