AIBU to be angry about attendance charge from school

[HidingInTheBathroom]

I am very upset at the minute. Received my fine today for taking my children out of school four days before they break up for Christmas.

Me and my husband have received a £60 fine for each child for each parent.

We are being charged more for being a couple. Which I think is wrong. The last week of school they only watch films and went to a pantomime. Oh and had a school disco. The holiday was far more educational than watching films and family time is hard to come by with work.

When I have requested a meeting with the head teacher I have just got a mouthful of abusive from the receptionist.

A question for All the people saying that missing a week of education will be detrimental to the child:

If it would be detrimental, then it will be detrimental no matter what, right?

So how come it won't be detrimental for a Forces family?

I could take DD out of school for a weeks holiday every single year that I am serving. If I had her at the start of my career that would mean every single year from age 5 to age 18.

But it would be 'authorised' and no-one would fine me, no-one would guilt trip me about how much education DD was missing, how it would mean she would have a bad work ethic/won't get a job/will do badly in her exams and so on.

Because it would be 'authorised'

How does that work then? What makes my DD better able to cope with missing a weeks schooling than, for example, LEMs DD?

dallas It will be detrimental, but the lesser of two evils compared to the impact of lack of quality time with a serving parent.

echt Repeated non attendance is different to a week off here & there, but perhaps needs to be across the board.

Aboriginal communities have huge attendance issues, so I don't think we can compare the two situations fairly.

Thankyou Frog.

What happens to traveller families? Oh let me guess. Their lifestyle is "cultural" so that's alright then.

Or religious families, someone on another thread gave an example of a high-school age girl given the month of June off for religious reasons. Presumably that's how important religion is, she needs a whole month off for it. Boy how I wish I had the right religion some days!

Whereas I want my kids to remember their (now 89yo) great-granny, or have some understanding of their enormous extended family, and the much maligned enormously diverse culture that their mother comes from, or to save their elderly grandfather from so much travelling in order to have a relationship with them, or see for themselves the famous landscapes of their mother's country and place of birth, but those those things aren't exceptional, aren't educational, don't matter

There isn't extensive research that states this is a problem. There is a little bit of research, that says it depends on the school, the child's social class and educational record to date, and the nature of the trip.

The particular group of children that this policy was originally aimed at are families of Bangladeshi and Pakistani origin, whose children's attainment is statistically rather poor, taking extended holidays of three or four months to see extended family in their country of origin. Except rather than focus on that, mad fines have been implemented for all families, where the impact is statistically negligible, and in some cases the extended trips are still being authorised because it is considered racist to prevent families from travelling to Bangladesh and Pakistan.

This policy is much more about getting parents under the thumb, and don't you mistake it. Once they are under the thumb, they are less likely to argue about things that are much more harmful to children's education, like frequent use of supply teachers, poorly directed teaching assistants, and heads that don't know how to spend their budget properly. Not to mention school budgets being top sliced to pay for half empty free schools and expensive property deals for academies. School attendance fines are a weapon of mass distraction.

If having a day or week off school is so bad according to some, you must feel very sorry indeed for kids who are ever ill.

So those children who are at school are learning nothing while you are having a holiday?
Get real. Pay the fine , you knew all about it

I once met a women with the thickest Italian accent ever. Every years she spent 3 months in our home-town (California) so that her many children would get the duel educational-cultural benefits of both countries and have a strong relationship with their grandfather. I often wonder how that turned out. She had no doubts of the benefits.

Honeysweet, that includes children prone to diarrhoea who miss a lot of school because of quarantine rules, even though they are able to learn. No provision is considered necessary there, either.

I think a lot of us have grown up respecting authority and have it instilled in us that we have to obey laws in order to be a decent member of society. As i've got older i question authority much more and this particular law doesn't make sense to me as i feel it doesn't target truancy as we know it.
A child who misses school willy nilly because they don't feel like attending/parents are not bothered/don't like school etc is not the same as a child taking a week out in the year to go to a wedding or family holiday.
Just because it is the 'law' doesn't mean it is right and life doesn't just happen in the school holidays!

Having said all that,if you're going to do it stop moaning and pay the fine!

I can't believe people are comparing illness to holidays! One is a natural part of life and something we have no control over, the other is a luxury - a lovely luxury but still...!

There's a simple answer to this, and that's to leave it up to the Head to decide, depending on how the child is doing at school, length of trip, what is planned in terms of learning, etc.

Just like we used to.

I quite agree.
I dont think that there used complaints in rl or on here about a Head's decision?

Once I pulled DS1 out for three weeks and sent him to language summer school, to prepare him for attending a secondary school with a bilingual programme. Should I be fined for that? His school thought it was a brilliant idea. This year I am pulling out DS3 as he is not of compulsory school age anyway, and I have to make a work trip to Germany and then work through the school summer holidays, so I am taking him to Germany with me and we are having a few days' holiday out there instead. How is that in any way unreasonable? To pretend this will sabotage their education in both cases is just daft.

Agree that this is less about holidays and more about control and targets. It is a "rights" issue, not because taking a foreign holiday is a right, but because parents have a right to bring their child up how they see fit, whether the government deem that right or wrong. There is a world of difference between a week off for a holiday and regularly missing school.

If you are going to take your child away in term time, you should accept that it may affect their schooling, and in turn, their grades. However, I can see some parents getting annoyed if their child was to leave school with lower grades because they missed out on a week or two of education. In fact, it's less about a rounded education and more about getting the right grades. I'm sure we're all aware that high grades does not always equal a good education.

But grades don't just affect the child, they affect the school (more so, perhaps?) and in turn, the local authority. THAT is what seems to be the problem, dressed up as "oh think of the children". We should also remember that parents these days work longer hours, and probably see less of their children than our generation did. What is more important to a child, good grades or family time?

And let's not bring strikes into this, that turns this into yet another "us vs them" argument which doesn't solve anything. It's just another divide and conquer technique from the government.

I intend to pay the fines AND moan about it. I will have earned the right to moan about it.

If the money went towards the education of the children, I'd be more likely to support the fines. But I imagine the money will get swallowed up in paperwork and red tape.

The problem is the education system is a complete mess and relies on children being in the classroom for their daily spoon feeding of facts.

They are taught to the test and the curriculum is so tightly bound by targets and red tape that teachers have little room for manoeuvre.

Years ago, we could make up lost ground once we knew what they were being taught, but now they are stuck if little Johnny hasn't completed one activity because of the way they tangle and cross match lesson plans in order to meet targets.

Does it really matter to your child in the grand scheme of things? Probably not, unless they are in a key year and really believe they need a certain grade or their life will be over.

Does it matter to the school? You bet it does!

Then we need to remember school is where children learn to conform, so they go on to be 'good' citizens/workers.

Don't be fooled people! It's not about the children - it's about making the education system look as though it's working and stripping parents of rights so they learn not to question or complain.

In turn, their children don't question or complain.

Take off the blinkers - you are being conned!

^ WSS!

TheGruffalo2: I'd love to know what you say to parents that you wouldn't want revealed!

If parents are the bad guys then a recording will prove that!

You seem to think you'd be caught out...?

"Once I pulled DS1 out for three weeks and sent him to language summer school, to prepare him for attending a secondary school with a bilingual programme. Should I be fined for that?"

No. And under both old and current wording there is absolutely no need for you to be. The 'educated elsewhere' code would be used. HTs have discretion to authorise absences (even holidays in exceptional extenuating circumstances).

"It is a "rights" issue, not because taking a foreign holiday is a right, but because parents have a right to bring their child up how they see fit"

I agree with this. And this is why it is perfectly legal to decline to use state controlled schools if you find what they offer abhorrent.

parents do NOT have a right to bring up kids how they see fit.. there are plenty of laws against what SOME parents see fit...

There is nothing I say that I don't want on record I just don't want to be accused of breaking the law. Recording what was said would actually back me up "You promised they would get a level 3B in their reading" (err no, never said that), "you've never told me his behaviour was challenging in the classroom" (err yes, every parents evening and additional meeting we've had), "you were rude when you asked me to make another appointment to discuss this in greater depth when my 10 minute parents evening was already running to 25 minutes" (err, actually it was you that shouted and swore at me when I explained we had other people waiting, we were already over time and it would be useful for us all to be able to really discuss the issue) etc.