AIBU to think drivers should do a cycle test before being allowed to drive?

[bicuriousgeorge]

Sorry thread about a thread but there are good and bad cyclists and good and bad drivers.
Unfortunately bad drivers are likely to do far more damage than bad cyclists.

why should drivers do a cycling test? So that cyclists can carry on being unsafe and all blame lies with the driver if one gets knocked over?! Most Drivers have already completed a theory test which means they've studied the Highway Code. I bet most cyclists don't even know what that is judging by how they go about on the road.

fakebook

80% of cyclist are also drivers so probably not the case

Why do you not think it will help? Why do you think your idea is so great? You have not explained who will pay for this and why they should.

Really? Do you have the figures on hand?

Also, particularly in London, lorries and buses are a big caused of death to cyclists. So, why not focus on them first? After all, the employers could pay for it. I'm sure TfL aren't short of a few bob!

Cyclist should be made to learn the Highway Code!

yes the figures are linked earlier on this thread

I can't open PDFs on my computer unfortunately.

marnie
as I said 80% of cyclist are also drivers so I should think they know the highway code although obviously like drivers they choose to ignore it

candy
Lorries are being targeted massively. They are being put under pressure and many have already upped training specifically for cycle awareness.

They have also invested heavily in a system which alerts the driver if there is something (pedestrian, cyclist) along their blind spot.

I have noticed a massive difference over the last 20 years and very rarely encounter lorries especially large ones doing anything other than courteous driving on my commute.

They leave wide birth when overtaking and often use eye contact or wave for good communication.
I feel quite safe around lorries nowadays.
Plus I would never undertake along side anyhow, it's just stupid to do so.

Anecdote does not equal data though.

Candy
Not sure how much a cycle test would be but not a huge amount I shouldn't think.
Perhaps a nationwide cycling scheme cold be rolled out through the schools.
It's done in other countries, I can't see why not here.

I agree anecdote does not equal data but they have definitely invested in this area.
I'll see if I can find some stats.

Jan 14

Safety campaigners scored a huge victory on Thursday as it was announced Lorries without safety equipment to protect cyclists and pedestrians are to be banned from travelling through London.

"Transport for London (TfL) and local authorities have joined forces to agree a new traffic regulation, which will come into force by the end of the year.

The proposed ban will require every vehicle over 3.5 tonnes to be fitted with side guards to protect cyclists from being dragged under wheels, as well as mirrors to improve a driver's view of cyclists and pedestrians

There are both drivers AND cyclists who need to improve their awareness of the other.

I regularly drive along a road with a long twisty hill that is very popular with cyclists at weekends. There is a large group who use this route: often 12-18 of them (I have counted!). They ride taking the full width of the lane. They do this through the village leading to the hill, then they do it up the hill. By the time they are at the top of the hill they are doing about 7 mph. It is IMPOSSIBLE to overtake them as the bends are all blind. They are fully aware of the effect that they have, as they turn around to look at the queue they cause.

Do they go single file to let cars pass safely? Do they use the lay-by at the bottom of the hill to let cars pass? Do they hell.

Every time I see them I wish that I could pass (somehow!) then stop, get out and tell them EXACTLY how idiotic they are being.

I also get to see idiotic drivers who try to pass them by going onto the wrong side of the road, on a blind bend, uphill. I've seen a nearmiss so close I truly do not now how the lunatic missed the guy coming downhill. It was like that scene where the Night bus passes between two other buses in Harry Potter.

I swear that there will be carnage on that hill one day. There will be an incident which will involve several cyclists getting badly hurt. There will be a head-on collision between cars. Yes, it will be the fault of the driver who attempted to overtake ... but they will have been stuck behind this inconsiderate bunch of cyclists who have no thought for other road users.

And finally ... this same group have been known to whoop and yell as they pass horses. Cyclists can be idiots around horses too.

Candy

Here is an article where Lorry drivers were put on bikes for a day to get a better understanding of their point of view. It states that the cost of fatalities is £1.6 million and that drivers seeing the road from a cyclist point of view should reduce that figure.

lcc.org.uk/pages/lorry-driver-training

Majority of drivers are fine and it is the small minority of nobheads that no amount of awareness raising will stop. I am thinking of the ones who overtake when they can definitely see you are pulling out, the ones that abuse you and tell you to cycle on the pavement, the ones that don't look before opening their car doors, the ones with no idea why you are signalling to move away from a pothole that a car could probably roll over, the ones with no concept of how easily a gust of wind can make you swerve a little off your line, the ones that tell you to use a cycle path 100 metres in length with dogs wandering all over it... You are very vulnerable on a bicycle and quite frankly being shouted at by car drivers makes me jump out if my skin. It is also irritating as fuck because they just speed off to go and eat chips on the sofa. The worst thing I saw - it was a Sunday and I don't know where the fire was - was being overtaken as I was going downhill at 29mph in a 30 zone. There wasn't enough room so the driver went on the wrong side of the road completely, on the other side of a traffic island! It was lucky there was nothing coming but he wouldn't have been able to see if there had been.

You'll need a tray

I agree it's from both sides, but if these costs of fatalities are to be accurate (I suppose NHS costs, insurances costs and wider costs) then as a nation we might be wise to offer cycle training for ALL road users and yes that includes cyclists.
BTW, I agree if a cyclist is caught on a pavement or doing something they shouldn't they should be required to enrol and pass some sort of advanced cycle training or receive a substantial fine.

BicuriousGeorge, I'm just looking at the key findings in your link and it states 80% of men hold a license. Not 80% of drivers are also cyclists. But yes I get what you're saying, a large number of these people with licenses must be cyclists too, but it depends on where you live IMO. I live in a university city and most cyclists here are young students and school children.

"The most common vehicle involved in collisions with cyclists is a car or taxi, with the rider usually being hit by the front of the vehicle. In a quarter of fatal cyclist accidents, the front of the vehicle hit the rear of the bicycle."

www.rospa.com/roadsafety/adviceandinformation/cycling/facts-figures.aspx

YANBU OP, but there are so many things that unsafe drivers do. How do you teach against stupidity?

The overtaking then turning immediately left thing - how can anyone be that stupid? Do they think the cyclist they have just overtaken evaporates?

I live in a city where punting cycling is the easiest way to get around and there seem to be as many people cycling as driving. I think there are good cyclists and bad, and it's the same with motorists. Most drivers in my city also cycle. I think awareness on both sides is important.

My DS is learning to drive, having previously cycled everywhere. He has finally realised how hard it is for motorists in rural areas to see a cyclist who can't be bothered to put on reflective clothing and lights, and it has changed his approach to cycling although he still won't wear a bloody helmet.

I think both cyclists and motorists should take road safety tests which take into account how to interact with road users of the opposite persuasion iykwim. Maybe then motorists would realise how flipping scary cycling in traffic is, and cyclists would realise that cycling around in the dark without lights on really isn't a good idea.

And cyclists should also have insurance - I have had a cyclist ride into the back of my car and break my lights, dent my boot and then cycle away without a care in the world, leaving me with a hefty bill.

bicuriousgeorge

"The proposed ban will require every vehicle over 3.5 tonnes to be fitted with side guards to protect cyclists from being dragged under wheels, as well as mirrors to improve a driver's view of cyclists and pedestrians"

What are TFL doing to prevent the cyclists from putting themselves in that position in the first place?

Making drivers more aware of how to behave around vunerable road users would be the single best way to improve safety for all involved.

I once asked a motorist if they would enjoy me driving past them with a foot to spare at 40mph. He didn't seem to have an answer as to why he thought it was perfectly acceptable to do that to cyclists when he wasn't prepared to do it himself.