To think most school work should be done in school

[BeeInYourBonnet]

When I was in primary school we had a small bit of homework which was normally doable on our own, with a bit of input from parents. I didn't particularly benefit massively from the fact my parents are educated to post grad level, as they never really needed, or were expected, to significantly input into my learning.

I have adopted a similar approach with my DCs. Helping with homework, listening to reading, but generally not setting a structured plan of learning for them outside school, as I stupidly presumed this was what school was for.

However, it is now becoming very obvious that there is a big gulf between those children whose parents have provided tutoring or a high level of parental support and it seems there is an expectation from the school that considerable amount of work will happen outside school. However, although I have a degree and a fair level of intelligence, I don't feel I am equipped to develop and drive my DCs learning, for example in Maths, as I don't understand the specific ways things need to be done, what with not being a teacher!

AIBU to think, apart from a small amount of homework, parents shouldn't need to take such a significant role, and that this causes huge inequalities between those parents who are able (time-wise, educationally and financially) to provide a high level of extra support, and those who are not?

what if the parents are barely literate?
work shifts?
have mental health issues/other health issues?
do not speak english?
are abusive?

fuck those kids, then? because you get out what you put in? heartless.

Too right chibi, not all parents are willing to put the time in.

yanbu
I don't quite get why the dc get so much homework after a long school day (9-4) in our case. especially compared to other countries. a friends dc in germany is in the same year as my dc. 5 hours (one school hour is 45 mins) and no homework. education wise both dc are on a roughly comparable level.
boggles my mind.

I accept that children should do homework (maybe an hour an evening?) at secondary school but I do not think primary school children should do any homework at all (apart from reading which I do not count as homework.)

Yanbu. This is one of my personal bug bears. Children are at school for 6 hours a day. That should be enough. If they still need to have work sent home with them then there is something wrong with the system.

Lovely article in the independent the other day regarding this sort of thing:

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/give-childhood-back-to-children-if-we-want-our-offspring-to-have-happy-productive-and-moral-lives-we-must-allow-more-time-for-play-not-less-are-you-listening-gove-9054433.html

Yanbu. IMO. If children need to do so much homework to keep up with learning and the national curriculum then the schools are failing some what. Either reduce the curriculum. Shorten the summer holidays. Or make class sizes smaller. Stop loading it all onto the kids and parents!

YABU school work is done in school.

Homework is done at home.

So your thread title should be more along the lines of not wanting your dcs to do homework.

My view is that homework is all part of the training. When they reach higher education they will need to be able to read around a subject, work outside of school hours and prove that they have the motivation to attain their goals.

That's what makes adults employable. So it's all part of the journey from childhood to adulthood. You can help your child to get there, or not, that's up to you.

Fairenuff - as an example, my DD seems to have fallen behind in maths, and the schools results overall are poor in maths. They are being sent home with homework that they cannot do/don't understand, just because it is the level they apparently should be working at.

Parents of other children are sending their DCs to tutors and/or spending hours with them on times tables etc. If we don't do the same, my DD will struggle as school are expecting us to fill the big gaps by working at home (we are being actively encouraged to do regular maths at home).

Luckily I'm OK at maths, although i struggle to understand some of the newer methods, but what if I wasn't? Or what if I worked ft/shifts, or was a carer, or had 5 dcs, or was unwell, or just not very intelligent?

No child should have to rely on parents for their academic education. I would prefer to see longer hours in school - with the extra time as "working alone" time and eradicating homework. Then you would get a genuine reflection of a child's abilities and where there are weaknesses rather than their parents doing any "hard" bit of homework.

Chibi wow so angry!

No it wouldn't have been fuck 'em. I can only talk about the experience I've had with my daughter's 4 schools but the children who aren't reaching the expected standard get extra help. There were also book clubs, maths clubs, science clubs etc for the children who were interested to be able to do extra if they want to.

My parents both worked long hours when I was a child so I didn't have the advantages I'm trying to give my daughter. Mind you I got different advantages from them.

I see school as being like anything else, if you want to do the best you can then you work hard to achieve it. We wouldn't expect and athlete to be the best based on natural ability and no training.

As parents, it's up to us to choose what's important to us for our kids. I can't choose for other children and other children in homes where English isn't a first language have a linguistics advantage but you won't catch me moaning that my daughter needs extra help as it's not fair to her!

People aren't all the same and advantages and disadvantages will be different for everyone.

YANBU, I feel the same way as you and due to this new phenomena some schools expecting parents to tutor DC's at the great expense, we changed school recently and things are much better, e.i spellings I have not seen since DC started new school ( done at school), maths and all extension work done at school, science projects done at school, all we do at home is read and practice instrument.
I have a lot more time for fun with my children

Sounds like a great new school Static.

DD does 3 after school activities per week ( nothing major: brownies, swimming and trampolining) plus learns an instrument. I am seriously considering cutting this back to just brownies as there is not enough time/will to do all the necessary extra school work.

I feel sad about this, especially the instrument which does mean lots of regular practice, as I had a musical hobby as a child and it was very enriching. But there is no way that DD has the after school mental capacity iyswim to keep this up.

I don't mind starting the introduction of homework in Yr5/6 as they do need to learn to work independently by secondary, but I just don't see the use of homework beyond reading/spelling/times tables before that. It isn't about 'well, if I can be bothered to do enrichment, why can't other parents?' Enrichment is fine, it's a parent's job, but covering the essentials is the school's job. It sounds as if too many schools are not doing it.

FWIW I have a Yr6 DD working towards SATs. She's doing L6 in English and Maths. All the extension work is done in school as clubs, with snacks provided, and is optional. It is made to be fun - reading extension means reading challenging books and discussing them, and maths is done as challenges/activities. She has homework totalling maybe an hour a week.

YANBU

I completely agree with chibi .

If state education turns into something where children with parents with a lot of educational/cultural capital are at an advantage that isn't ameliorated by the education system it has gone a bit pear-shaped.

It's just all a bit silly to argue otherwise, really. Like going to a dentist and it being OK to be doing the dental work yourself.

There are lots of parents who won't or can;t "help" their children. School has to be a level playing field for the children of these parents.

I am angry, how perceptive.

I am angry that children are being written off when they are so young purely because of their parents

It is supremely unfair, and unjust. I can't see how it can be excused

It is not ok for schools to allow children to fail because their parens can not or will not teach them

I am talking about the fundamentals of learning, literacy, numeracy, and learning to learn,

This is the bare minimum a society owes its children and if we cannot provide it we will face the consequences

"I have always taken the time to help my daughter with homework and discuss her day and if there's anything she had problems with or particularly enjoyed.

Why shouldn't my daughter benefit from my interest in her schooling? Why should others who don't take the time be on a par?"

I agree with what other posters have said, but I want to add that the above outline of "help" kind of misses the point.

I think the OP has in mind significantly more input than the above. We're talking robust tutoring from year 3 for a significant minority, rising to a majority being properly tutored from year 5. It's a long way beyond "a bit of homework".

It's crazy that parents are expected (by whom? not the schools, I suspect) to either provide this financially, or get themselves educated to a level to do it themselves.

I really do think it's a form of insanity. I think it is peer-driven, myself. I suspect most schools disapprove.

It's anxiety, really. As a society, we are going mad, and damaging our children. Really.

I think we should make a massive U-turn; stop being so grabby (about money, about jobs and hours), start job-sharing, be more equitable about income-redistribution. That, I think, will take some of the anxiety out of modern schooling - where many people want to "grab" as much advantage-through-education for their kids (at the expense of other people's kids) as possible - and make for a happier family life (and childhood for our children).

And I think high house-prices don't help. Affordable housing + people feelign more confident, secure, less terrified of themselves and their children "falling through the cracks".

That's what's driving this education-grabbiness madness.

Yanbu. Actually happier with level of homework now in year 2 than reception. We have one maths and one literacy (spelling mostly) per week and a whole week to complete so we do it at the weekend. In reception we had the class bear several times and were expected to bring him back with details of his adventures the next day. Just too stressful for all concerned.

Homework is a battle ground in our house. DS1 (yr 6) has complete meltdowns whenever he is asked to do it. It causes so much stress. I am seriously starting to think of not making him do it - remind and suggest of course - but leave him to make his own decision about it.

What do you think?

I think encouragement is a good thing - I remember my mum testing me on spellings and times tables and whatnot in primary. But I think parents need to be backing off in secondary, even if it means the kid fails sometimes (easier said than done, I know!) My reasoning is that I sometimes teach at uni level and the lack of 'ownership' they have of their learning is astonishing. It keeps them infantilised and believing that all the 'adults' around them will never let them fail. So they don't really develop the maturity and self-discipline to manage independent study.

thecatFromjapan good post.

I think too much homework is set generally. Its a long day for many secondary children, some leave home at 7 and don't get back until 5. Better to spend time at after school clubs and scouts etc IMHO.