AIBU to be incensed at the inequalities in the benefit system? (long sorry)

[Libran70]

I read MN every day and think how awful it is that so many people are struggling to cope on inadequate benefits and of the nit picking interviews they have to go through to get anything extra. And then there's ASOS causing so much upset and forcing disabled people to justify their existence.

I know there is a very small minority who play the system but they seem to be the only ones we ever hear about. So many people are struggling, no one should have to go to a food bank to feed their children.

However, there are cases where the money could be shuffled around and aimed at those really struggling.

My cousin is autistic and she lives in a wonderful complex within the community. She has a flat (bedroom, kitchen, living room, bathroom) and there is a care worker on call 24/7. SWs call daily to help her prepare meals, do her washing, take her shopping and so on. She also has an active social life, organised by SS and a local charity. She also has a supported job washing up in an old people's home close by. She sees her remaining parent every weekend and they go on holiday together. She pays for her own holidays and some of the care from her allowances.

This really is an example of excellent care. She was recently reassessed and she is entitled to every penny she gets in allowances and benefits.

However, she has a five figure amount of money in savings. All of this is saved from her benefits and allowances. I hope she has a long life ahead of her but when she dies this money and a lot more, I guess, will go to her family.

AIBU in thinking that this would not be fair? And AIBU in thinking she is getting far too much (at the moment) and there are people out there who need it more?

The thing is people on benefits should save if they can.

What if the essential appliances such as cooker breaks down, with no money people only option is stores like bright house which means they end up paying twice the amount as this is the only type if finance option available. A second hand one are also expensive if it eats up the whole weeks budget.

Wow. As a mum of a child with ASD, my heart soared when I read about the support your cousin is receiving. Then thudded back to the ground when I read the rest of your post.

I'm actually quite shocked that someone who claims to have so much awareness of how her cousin lives can feel this way. It's almost like you are only seeing the figures on paper with no actual understanding of the life she leads. Do you spend much time with your cousin?

It is not means tested for a reason - to protect the vulnerable. If a wealthy family of a disabled person said they 'looked after' the person but didn't need the DLA then they could have financial power over that person.

It's a very fundamental basic right for the person to have autonomy with their own income. You can't mess about with that.

I don't really get this OP. Would it be ok if she did understand money and spent the money on home improvements or something else that she wanted/needed?

Your cousin is very lucky to be living in the kind of accommodation she does. However she may not always be in such a fortunate position she is in now and saving will definitely help her.

Do you think because her money came from benefits she should not be aloud to keep any amount of savings or be able to leave behind some money for her loved ones? I am in receipt of some benefits as I am a single Mum who does work but I am on a low income. Every year I go without certain things for myself and save my ass off to take DD away on holiday so we can both have a nice week away somewhere, it is something I look forward to all year. Should I maybe not be aloud to spend that money on a holiday abroad and instead give it back?

And really, is it any of your business?

It's not a stupid thing to say.

It's even worse if you do have an idea, yet begrudge her having this level of support.

We're all very comfortable and don't need it.

Donate it to charity then if it ever comes to it.

she is your cousin not your child, so as much as you claim to know about the situation, it's not you that has to worry about what will happen to your ever dependant offspring when you die is it?

When I read these threads about someone getting such wonderful care, with social workers (really?) in and out all day, Lots of holidays and money left over. I think "This is exactly what the government wants to see posted on high profile places like mumsnet because it helps justify the cuts"

It couldn't be better if it were written by a member of George Osborne's staff.

If she's managed to save that amount, what is she missing out on?

The amounts set for benefits aren't huge. So what 'ordinary' expenses is she not meeting to be able to save? It may be that your cousin simply doesn't do/need/have some of the things that are considered essential costs, or it may be that they are being elsewhere.

If it's the second, that's great. It's fantastic that she's in that position. She should save, and then, if she never needs it and you feel bad, it can be donated.

If it's the first, is there anything she could be doing/could have that would improve things for her? It sounds like she has all her basic needs met admirably, but it may be worth reviewing.

And yes, whilst I see why it seems wrong that she's building up a reserve whilst others go to food banks, it may just be that your cousin is one of the lucky few for whom circumstances/family support/location etc have combined so that it all works as it should. This may not last forever, so some reserve is probably a good thing!

OP, I think you're being unfairly flamed here. It seems to me that all your questioning is a system which gives, based on the info you've supplied here, enough "extra" money to allow some people to accumulate significant savings when so many other people are reliant on charity to feed their families. Seems a fair enough comment to me.

Forty I do not begrudge her having that level of support. I'm the one who got it for her. It's the amount of money she gets that I'm concerned about. The benefit system is a mess and some of it is misdirected.

Amber I am the one who has to worry when her mum dies.

Meep her housing is taken care of. Any improvements are paid for by the council.

Thank you, JohnCusacksWife, that's what I'm trying to say.

I quite agree that there are inequalities in the benefits system.

Why should families with at least one worker in it be worse off than those fully reliant on benefits. Those working should be better off for doing so.

Those who have conditions that limit the types of work they can do should be expected to at least look for work they can do, rather than assuming they can do nothing. I also think that those with disabilities should be favoured for public sector work will more job shares or job banks but should be expected to do something when they can.

Public sector jobs should also be given to those who are unemployed and without disability. Benefits should be earnt and job hunting and community tasks should take up more than an hour a day!

Those who can do nothing should be fully supported and not feel pressured to do something they can't.

Why should somebody living at home with parents receive the same amount if job seekers allowance to somebody who has to run a home (eg pay utilities) and feed themselves from the same amount.

I don't see why somebody fully reliant on benefits can afford to go on holidays every year and have savings when we (in days gone by) and so many of my friends have all been in full time work, unable to save or afford holidays and yet paying taxes to allow these people to do so.

The benefits system should be a safety net to ensure families can get by. Those in work should be able to get top ups to ensure that they have greater disposable income than those who don't work. They shouldn't be paying for a lifestyle for others that is better than theirs!

Taxation should be fairer too. Why should a greater proportion of the incomes of low income families be taxed? That's hugely unfair.

Unfortunately, it's hard to devise and implement a fair tax and benefits system and would take a massive upheaval and cost to implement and lose votes with those not seeing the bigger picture or badly affected by the changeover so a vote loser and no government would be that brave so the inequalities will continue.

Ok, I'm still struggling to understand fully, I guess because we don't know the figures. I wonder if you look at the amount in savings vs how long it's taken to save it up would change your mind.

Take £10,000 for example. You could save that over a 20 year period by saving just £41.66 a month. There is a huge chance that YANBU and I don't agree with the people who have said about swapping places etc. It is cruel. However without giving any indication as to how much expendable cash a month/year we're talking it's hard to say whether YABU or not.

Joysmum - The OP is talking about a severely autistic woman who will never work.

libran yes you fought for her to have that care and support but the government could decide to cut it tomorrow leaving your cousin to need to find housing and furnish it which would completely eat into her savings. If her support was cut overnight her position would completely reverse and you would be on here complaining that she doesn't really get enough. The costs involved to tailor benefit levels to an individual would be astronomic so they are set at flat rates according to physical need. That is right and fair, someone shouldn't be financially penalised because every penny they spend has to be accounted for leading to a much lower spend and consequentially a much lower level of life enjoyment on a day to day basis.

libran yes you fought for her to have that care and support but the government could decide to cut it tomorrow leaving your cousin to need to find housing and furnish it which would completely eat into her savings. If her support was cut overnight her position would completely reverse and you would be on here complaining that she doesn't really get enough. The costs involved to tailor benefit levels to an individual would be astronomic so they are set at flat rates according to physical need. That is right and fair, someone shouldn't be financially penalised because every penny they spend has to be accounted for leading to a much lower spend and consequentially a much lower level of life enjoyment on a day to day basis.

It's a bit like my Dad. He is housebound and receives DLA - but he also has significant savings. I suppose the DLA is to pay to have his shopping delivered and to pay a cleaner.

I wonder if his will be stopped under the universal credit thingy?

I'm surprised she has managed to save. Usually in residential/supported accomodation they take all of your DLA and Benefits and leave you £20 a week.

DLA btw, isnt being included in UC as it's non-means tested. At the moment.

OP - I know that you have written that you fully understand your cousins situation and have been active in the fight to get the fantastic services that she currently has. Bit I am interested to know whether you have had to take sole care of your cousin for more than a few weeks at a time without the support of others? Looking in on a situation is very different from living the situation on a daily basis.
I have no doubt that your cousins parents have also been actively involved in obtaining the current level of services and are relieved to know that your cousin is well cared for and has some income to pay for her basic needs should she have an income reduction in the future.
You really need to have a rethink about the issues in your post as you sound quite bitter. I'm sure the people being forced to use a foodbank wouldn't want to swap their very able and 'normal', albeit financially poor lives for your cousins life where she is trying to cope in a world that she probably finds frightening, confusing and stressful.

So a 5 figure sum would be anything between 10,000 and 99,999?

I am assuming she receives ESA, HB and DLA. She may also be receiving Direct Paymrnts to pay for her support worker.

The ESA and HB elememts are means-tested. The Direct Payments are sometimes means-tested.

If she has more than £16,000 in savings her ESA and HB will be reduced by an amount of 'interest' that the DWP determine she should be recieining on her savings.

Who is her DWP Appointee - because it's the responsibility of the DWP Appointee to deal with the DWP.

Somebody must be acting for her financially as you claim she does not have competence.

My adult son with high medical needs will be lucky to save a penny, his DLA care component has now been taken away because of the time he spends in hospital and periods of respite. When a disabled person is in accommodation supported by public funds- whether the local authority or NHS is paying, the DLA care component which they receive will stop after a number of days.

doitmyself - If she gets £20 a week but her parents provide everything e.g. new clothes, trips out, then it would take 10 years for that to accumulate to £10,000. So perfectly possible for an adult with severe disabilities who have supportive family.

I wouldn't begrudge this person the money she gets. Because she is in need of support. Because she lives a frugal life is her choice.