dh-possible negative reference from employer. WWYD?

[butterandcrumpets]

Sorry, didn't know where to put this.

A bit of background: Dh has been working in a job for less than minimum wage. He gets the money cash in hand but is registered as self employed and declares it all, pays voluntary NI etc. He has been working there for 20 months, put in all hours, ended up managing the volunteers etc. He is looking to move on now as it's not sustainable. We want to move to a larger place soon and it's simply not enough money (which the boss think is 'grabby' btw).

This is where the problem starts. He has no real contract so just after Christmas he spoke to his boss about wanting to move on. Boss said, fine, give me 1 week notice when you want to go. Boss then offered him 50p more an hours but dh said he still wants to go. His boss is not looking for a replacement though and has now said that when dh goes he will give him a bad reference for 'leaving him in the lurch'. Dh thinks that there is no way he can get away amicably.

We are wondering how to go from here. Could dh explain the situation in an interview? Does he have to put his previous employer down as a reference? WWYD?

Apologies for the essay but any input would be greatly appreciated.

If he is technically self-employed, then no, he does not need to give his current boss as a reference, but he needs to be prepared to be asked in a potential interview why he does not provide a reference from his previous job. I'd prepare an answer for that if I were him.

The boss sounds rather unpleasant, a bully and in breach of the law if he pays below MW?

is there a HR epartment?

also becuase you mentioned volunteers, is there a board, is this a charity?

Iirc it is illegal to provide a bad reference, the only other alternative is to refuse to submit one.

Is there anyone else he can ask?

I think legally the employer is no longer allowed to give a bad reference. All they can say is that they would not chose to employ that person again with no reason given. Should the employer cause your Dp to not get another job for those stupid reason I think you could take them to a tribunal. Maybe post in legal where someone with some employment law may be able to help

this . gov website has some very good info on bad references your dh needs to give his boss this informationand tell him, that unless he gets an accurante reference he will see him in court

he should also keep dates, times and notes of all conversations, as he could look into taking him to court anyway

If he gives a reference that says anything untrue you can sue the pants off him!!
Most references now just ask for employment dates and position held but the boss can just ignore the request entirely, which can cause problems.
Could your OH not just say that he has been self employed for 20 months so no reference but get one from an earlier employer.

Thank you for the advice, everyone. There is no HR department and it's not a charity. I don't want to write too much as it would make me identifiable. The reason he was/is self employed was primarily due to the dodgy set up. He will probably de-register. I didn't know this about bad references - will read through the link. And yes, his boss is a nasty piece of work.

They can only comment on negative issues such as poor timekeeping and sick leave if it is factually correct. You cannot comment on a persons character, it is illegal and as pretty says could lead to a tribunal case against the employer.

i think your DH actually holds all the cards. He can threaten to report his boss to HMRC as technically you can't get round the MW by by paying someone as self employed. If he gives him a bad reference then say he'll report him to HMRC. Actually i'd probably report him to HMRC anyway once he's out.

Chasdingle, that's what I have been telling him too. At the moment, he just wants to get out as soon as possible.

It is perfectly legal to give a bad reference as long as it is fair accurate and true. The employer needs to have evidence to back up his claims. It is definitely not illegal though gave one a few months ago for a woman who was he'll to work with due to poor time keeping and unreliability

Mrs Morton> but i think a bad reference can only be based on fact and not opinion. So you could say someone was often late and sometimes didn't turn up if that was fact but if someone was just poor at the job but it would be harder to give as its opinion and not fact

Yes, you need good hard evidence to back it up (copies of appraisals, written warnings, time sheets and the like). Bad isn't the same as unfair or inaccurate though. Lots of people think you can't give a bad reference, that's simply untrue.

I had something similar while ago, I left suddenly due to personal problems, but not before it had interfered with my job, it being my horrible abusive ex

For my first job application after leaving I rang pretending to be from a firm looking for a verbal reference, they gave me a lovely reference, said they would hire me back, all the right stuff, so I included them as references on the application form

Also, I have put in current job and only listed ex jobs as references, when asked I simply said I didnt want work to know yet that I was looking for a change and clarified what notice I was required to give,
I would say to your dh to not use his current boss as reference and any questions just say boss is not in the know,

Further down the line, get someone to ring for a verbal reference to check what boss will say,

He can legitimately say he was self employed, so no reference available - technically he didn't have an employer, he had a client.

It may sound easy to decide to take someone to court over a bad reference, but it's actually quite difficult. To start, the potential new employer does not have to show you the reference or give you a copy of it. A solicitor would have to write to them and request it. This obviously costs money. Once you have a copy of the reference, you could take court action yourself, but there will still be a cost.

I speak from experience - I never did get a copy of the bad reference and that was after spending nearly £300 on a solicitor. I have up in the end and never used the same company for a reference again. (the bad reference came as a result of leaving and being accused of leaving them in the lurch, despite giving a months notice)

Thank you, everyone. Dh had a conversation with his boss today and they have cleared the air a little. Dh will not use current employer as reference. Getting someone to ring and ask for a reference is a good idea though. I am rather curious whether he'll go through with his threat.