to think private dentists just think of a number

[glasgowsteven]

I have porcelian veneers - have had for 25 years since early teens - when I smashed my front teeth.

never any bother - ever, one fell off, and I found it in bed.

A reverse tooth fairy.

so went to my local (sounds like) loopa - dentist - as I am not registered with an nhs one.

Check up first - 25 quid..no problem.

after the check up sales pitch.

Do you have toothache - nope.....

strange because you need --

root treatment, fillings, caps and also both veneers replaced.

Total cost - 2250...........

How much to recement my current veneer

£65 quid...

That will do nicely thank you verymuch..

By 2k ++

for some fillings and root canal

(800 quid of that was two new veneers - nothing wrong with ones i got)

so.....thoughts....

You're forgetting to mention staff salaries, rent, business rates, staff training and the costs of all the materials. A close friend is a dentist and I nearly fell off my chair when she told me the cost of the chair and having the walls lead lined for the xray machine!

YABU to condemn all private dentists. There are ethical dentists and unethical dentists - whether they are NHS or private makes no difference to their ethics, good and bad in both sectors and many work in both.

I pay 4 times what you paid for a check-up with my private dentist but there is no hard sell. He is in the 'long game' of customer service and meeting my legitimate dental needs when they arise.

In return I know I will always see him, not just some random Associate dentist they have drafted in, even in emergency unless he is on holiday.
If like some NHS dentists he failed to see me quickly, I would be free to go elsewhere with my other family members, whereas NHS dentists seemingly have a stream of willing patients and so have less incentive to keep you as a satisfied customer for the long term.
As a family we probably pay over £600 in fees every year for no treatment except cleanings with hygienist. This makes us viable as patients with no need to overdiagnose to cover overheads and make a profit. I don't do Denplan as I think that is a bit like NHS and can lead to undertreatment.

It is ridiculous to expect private dental fees to match NHS ones since NHS dentists are subsidised by the NHS. What you pay does not reflect the full cost of the treatment. What the NHS offers is basic compared towards what modern dentistry can do e.g. implants.

If you are using a private dentist, hand pick them, be fussy...you want long-term ethical care and to build a relationship of trust. Don't stay with them unless they seem like a nice person.
Get yourself on the list of the practice-owner, not the Associate.

Ask as many questions as you need and do not consent to treatment unless you feel happy it is appropriate. You are supposed to give 'informed consent' not just accept what you are told.
www.dentalfearcentral.org/fears/unnecessary-dental-work/

Also as Mrsmorton said patients always assume the cheaper option was the correct one - maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Ask your dentist what they would do if it were their own tooth/loved one's tooth. Ask to see x-rays and have what is proposed and why explained.

'''Do you have toothache - nope.....

strange because you need --'''

YANBU to think this is a 'used car salesman' type line....try to find a private dentist with a 'teeth for life' philosophy.

What's wrong with associates? You don't have to own a practice to be a good dentist.

Willabywallaby - true but for me personally at my advanced age I want my dentist to 'stick around'. The practice owner is the least likely to be leaving - once I find a dentist I like, I do not want to have to change.

Most if not all of the Associate dentists I saw at an NHS practice in 1970s and 1980s were straight out of dental school...so there can be an experience issue as well.

ukatlast I can see where you're coming from, but I know people who have bought practices straight out of training.

And back to the OP I've never just plucked a figure out of the air...

YABU. DH is currently undergoing £1000s of treatment due to years of incompetent NHS treatment which has left him in pain for as long as I've known him. You could argue that the dentist has just plucked a number out of the air but the same guy who is charging him so much for lots of treatment charged me £150 for one filling. I'm happy to pay a professional for a bloody good job which helps keep me pain free.

I think people get suspicious because it isn't clear how the charges are calculated. Half the time you don't actually know whether the treatment is necessary, or whether something else or nothing at all would be fine, let alone why it's £2k or £400. If they gave you an estimate that was broken down saying X amount to cover insurance, Y amount for premises, Z amount for staff, premises, equipment, supplies it would be reassuring. But I suspect they wouldn't want to give you that information or they'd be doing it already.

Vets are even worse - at least I know if I've got teethache, I have no idea whether my cat needs expensive drug A or treatment B, much less how much it really costs!

It would be impossible to break it down like that for each patient though, someone needing crowns arguably uses more of my training and insurance than someone who needs fillings because they are harder and more of a risk but they can take less time, more time or the same time as fillings. How would you bill that? It's impossible. If you think you're being overcharged though, there's nothing to stop you asking for an indication of why things are costing what they've come up with.

I'm sure it would be, but the point is people don't have a clue how dentists arrive at their charges, so there is a level of inevitable suspicion. At least with garages, they itemise the bill. (Although everyone suspects garages too...)

I was private until my dentist retired, he told me I had great teeth and they would last for years and even talked me out of cosmetic treatment at the time I could afford it. His replacement was just on the hard sell, have I thought about cosmetic treatment etc, I left and found another private, cost me £80 to register and have check up, a couple of weeks later I received a report on my teeth complete with photos on how my smile could be improved, I did not request this and I was put out to say the least and did not do my confidence any good especially as not in a position financially now to justify cosmetic treatment as all my spare cash goes on my kids. Fortunately I found an NHS dentist and haven't looked back, she's fab, she looks after whole family, we go every 6 months and being NHS only have necessary work done. I became very disillusioned with private dentists.

Private dentistry charges are based on and hourly rate. For example a crown may take two visits with a total of 1.5hrs of surgery time.

Surgery time is worked out roughly by dividing the costs of running the business ie rates ,rent,lighting & heating.professional costs,staff costs,repairs and maintenance,materials etc,etc,etc per year divided by the number of hours the dentist wants to work then he/she will add his/her preferred hourly rate and finally the laboratory costs.
The lab costs alone for a private all porcelain crown are in excess of £130 from a reputable British lab

A crown should last a good 10 to 20 years so if you are charged £500 this works out at between £25-50 a year.

I saw a patient today who had broken a crown that is well over 20years old, we are replacing it on the NHS which will cost her £214 she reckoned that at £10 a year the old one had been worth every penny.

The majority of NHS dentists provide private services as well. They are contracted to carry out essential,clinically necessary work for their NHS patients. But if those patients want cosmetic alternative the same dentist can charge them privately. For example patients often ask for metal fillings to be replaced by white fillings. If it is not necessary to replace them then they can be done privately.

Dentists are just greedy as far as I'm concerned. I have rang all the practices in my area and they are too full to take me on as a NHS patient - but they CAN take me on as a private patient. I am really angry because none of them will register the kids unless I register as a private patient first. I think that it disgusting. Reluctantly I have had to do this and have to pay £55 registration fees. I am doing it because I want the DC to have regular check-ups, but what about parents who can't or won't pay? How is this situation acceptable?

DH went to the dentist today and got charged £65 just for a check-up, he didn't even get a clean or anything!

Seriously, I would like to see a ban on private practices or at least a cap on the amount of private patients a practice can have. At the very least children should be registered at their local dentist, perhaps they could be allocated one at age 1, just like schools are allocated.

Dentistry should not be a business - it is healthcare.

Make sure you blame the dentists for the system though yea?

If there's no NHS money, the dentist can't suck it out of his thumb, if you don't like the system perhaps you should firstly learn a bit more about it and secondly, do something like write to your MP. Ban private practices? Lol.

Not everyone wants to be limited to what the NHS offers, I'm happy to pay for non-essential treatment that wouldn't be covered on the NHS.
Unless we are going to become communist, banning private practice would take dentistry back years.

As with most things in life, you get what you pay for. It must be terrifying though to be in severe pain and have no money and not be able to access NHS dental services.

They can't win either way. If, as my dentist does, they hand you the bill for £350 for "professional services rendered", people think they're hiding something and just thinking of a number then doubling it. If they itemised everything down to the insurance, heating etc people would think they were "nickel and diming" and pick over the bill arguing with the receptionist about every little thing.
I'm a vet. I do try to discuss as best I can the options available and give estimates for each and what I think is likely to happen if we take each option, or do nothing. I also try to answer the question "what would you do if it was your pet?" We have broadly itemised bills and will go through them line by line with the customer if they want. I trust my dentist to just go ahead and do what she thinks needs done; if there is a decision on which a lot of money or big difference in risk rests then I ask her to explain in more detail and she does. Same with my car: if the mechanic says the noise it's making is a dangerous £500 noise that needs fixed now I ask more questions; if they say it's a £50 noise that won't make a difference to the MOT then I don't bother trying to understand, I just decide if I want to spend fifty quid to make the noise go away.

I got Denplan so pay summat like £20 a month, and whatever needs doing is covered. For that have 2 dentist check ups and 4 hygiene appointments a year. As the hygiene appointments alone would cost me nearly £70 a time, I reckon I'm doing quite well.

The other year an old filling failed and I needed an emergency root canal. Would have cost a fortune but denplan covered it. This year, I needed a large filling replaced but the dentist decided to do a porcelain inlay instead. The lab fees alone for that would be in the hundreds, let alone the dentist's work over several sessions. I just had to pay £60 towards lab fees.

If you get on a dental plan then they will most definitely give you the treatment you need. But not be tempted to throw in extras.

Should add, my (private) dentist puts up their prices online, and are very open about precisely what they will charge for which procedure. They are phobic-friendly, which NHS dentists aren't, and if I want to have extra local anaesthetic for a procedure unlike an NHS dentist, they won't quibble - just give me more needles! I am broke but go without things to pay for my Denplan. We have cut all our spending right down - but will never give up this. It's worth every penny, to find a dental insurance that will keep you covered.

My DH is a dentist

The general public seem to view him as a selfish bastard for not working for free or perhaps charging £2.50 if the treatment is very complex. Interesting to see that general sentiment repeated again and again on here.

My boiler's being serviced tomorrow. I might make a [cinfused] face when the electrician expects to be paid.

Ban private practices?!

Should we ban private physiotherapy, private counselling, private medicine, private schooling, private car ownership, private home ownership?

Where would you like to stop with your banning of things? And if you don't want to ban all of those, why are dentists singled out?

Eek at the thought of banning private dentists....I want to exercise my right to see the same person (unless outside their expertise), pay someone to be nice to me, not hurt me and do high quality (but not unnecessary) dental work.

Not all private dentists are phobic friendly but you can in theory pay them to spend the time you want/need and insist on your preferences for more local etc etc .

Quote Willabywallaby: 'ukatlast I can see where you're coming from, but I know people who have bought practices straight out of training.'

Hope that's the exception - thanks for pointing it out - I always check year of qualification - obviously what I am seeking is experience and continuity of care delivered with kindness i.e. the person wanting my repeat custom.

I worry about unethical dentists and have [I am sure] experienced some.
I have a dentist I trust now and dread him retiring.
12 years or so ago a dentist told me I needed 4 fillings in teeth that had been declared fine by an associate of his 6 months previously [associate gone back to Australia]. He picked at my teeth as if hacking and climbing a mountain face. I was crying in the chair.
When I got home I made a decision to never go back and through word of mouth found another dentist. He said I needed a filling replaced but just discoloured enamel on alleged dodgy teeth. I stuck with him until he went back to Germany and the practice closed. I bought [for admin fee] my xrays and notes and through my brother found another trustworthy dentist. I pay a reasonable but not excessive amount for checkups and cleans and my children are free.
How is it acceptable for some dentists to be like car salesmen?
Op- please ask around your friends and relatives and find a dentist that people trust and who are ethical. They are out there. I now go every 6 months religiously as don't want to lose my excellent dentist.
Finding a good, trustworthy dentist should not be as traumatic as it seems to be.

Just out of interest, how much do we think is reasonable for an appointment with a private dentist, where an X-ray is taken but not much actual work done? Is £50 reasonable? Normally I'd say yes, but all it meant was I had to have a follow-up after Christmas; it was a bit like booking a hair appointment only for them to take a photo of your head, trim some split ends, then charge you £50 and say come back in a few days' time to shell out again.