Actually wwyd, re: toddler at nursery with new staff.

[mumofsnotbags]

Sorry for posting here but i only have until tomorrow to decide what to do in this case. This may be long but dont want to drip feed.

My ds goes to nursery twice a week full days. He is now 19 months. When he started it was a council run nursery, all the staff lovely, never ever had a problem with anything. Then in December it was sold to 2 women who have taken it over privately. In their "wisdom" they got rid of all the experienced staff (9 people) and kept on only 2 part time. He is currently in the 0-2 room and the staff who know him have been moved to an older age group room.

Basically my only fears were that i didnt want really young inexperienced girls looking after him. Im paying money for teenagers to get experience around him and make mistakes on my child in the process. If they had kept the 2 girls in the same room as him who know his (and the other childrens) routine, i dont think i'd have a problem. Luckily there were 2 young girls and 3 older ladies who knew what they were doing, are really lovely, the 2 young ones always seem to be really quiet, chatting to themselves etc. There also working really long hours 8-6 each day as the same ones are there in the evening whi i passed him to in the morning.

Its now been 3 weeks, we had an issue on the 1st wk, he would come home hungry, tired and screaming, totally out of character, he was also really grubby, I made a comment 1 day about how rotten he was and he was brought home clean from then on. The crying has eased off also.

Fast forward to yesterday i dropped him off, there were 2 new young girls in the rm, only 1 of them said hello to my ds and acknowledged me, as for the others 1 was reading to 1 child, 2 were chatting to each other laughing. my oh picks him up usual time of half 4 and he has just a vest and trousers. He asks were his top is and the manager went to get it saying he had spilt food down him. When he came home i looked at his trousers, they were, like his shoes, covered in mud, wet and something white too like paint or yoghurt. If i knew how to id upload a picture of them as they are disgusting. Im now worried they let him sit around in wet dirty clothing. His legs were freezing when he got in, so god knows how long theyve let him sit like that for. yet they saw fit to take off his top as he spilt a bit of food on it, nothing in comparison to the state of his trousers. Im worried this will just carry on like this so my options are:

a. Go in and see the manager, take in the trousers (even though dp says she was there so has already seen them and done nothing) say its unacceptable etc.

b. Give the girls the benefit of the doubt, maybe it was a 1 time thing, mention it to 1 of them and ask them not to let it happen again.

c. dont bother at all with them and change his nursery.

Since the changeover they have taken on more children quite a few are rough which i expect from that age but i do expect them to be properly supervised also.

Im no good with confrontation at all so need help, what would you do? really sorry this is long!

I'd switch nurseries. It sounds poorly managed and you don't get rid of good staff to save money

If you're not happy, find somewhere or someone else.

Does he have to go because you work? Would a CM be better?

This is one of the reasons I would never use a nursery.

The actual nursery can say whatever they like about the environment, the experiences, their meals etc - but the reality is, you have absolutely no control over who is looking after your dc. That is left up to the nursery manager, for whom costing's will also always be a consideration.

I have a friend who is now a qualified teacher...but in the holidays after finishing her A Levels at College she walked right into a 'helper' role at a local daycare - with the proviso she would always be supervised by a qualified nursery nurse/first aider etc. It was about 2 days before she was changing nappies, feeding, playing with babies and toddlers on her own. This is someone who at the time had no experience with kids at all. Some of the stories she used to tell me are enough to make your hair curl, and this was a large, pricey and very well thought of nursery with a waiting list to get your child in.

Do I want to pay a fortune to have my dc looked after by an unqualified enthusiastic teenager? No. Hence I don't use a nursery.

Hi, thankyou for your replies. Apparently the staff werent so much got rid of as they were not allowed to talk to the new buyer and vice versa, thats what the parents were told but ive since found out 5 of the staff applied for their job and she only kept on these 2 women.

Such a shame as they were all lovely, really knew what they were doing etc. The 1st day issue was when i dropped him off 1 of the new ladies asked me the usual whats his name etc then when she asked his age said so does he still have a nap?? That was the first alarm bell for me to be honest and ive given them the benefit of the doubt since but yesterday im actually disgusted.

I work from home as im self employed 2 days a week, I will have a look into childminders now as I dont really know about how they work to be honest. I did go to see another nursery last year, the kids were manic, no control at all so left within the 1st few minutes. The only others here are a bus ride away. The one hes at now is only 10 minute walk so thats another factor id have to think about.

wedding Thats honestly what i think they've done here, got at least 1 or 2 qualified experienced staff in and the rest are sort of helpers.

I dont know for sure though so i may ask tomorrow when hes next due to be in. I think if i dont get the answers i want tomorrow he wont be staying. Unfortunately its too short notice to get someone to look after him so id be stuck for tomorrow.

We have always had family to care for our dc (3 and 5) until last September when that was no longer possible.

Now they go to a local child minder and it's fantastic. Don't be afraid to go and visit a couple and ask if they have reference from any parents of current/past children.

Personally, I specifically looked for a childminder with children of her own. Firstly because it was nice company for my dc. Secondly (and mainly) because, to me, your children will be joining in with theirs and my thinking is no one will be giving food, having visitors, taking them places that they would find unsuitable for their own dc iyswim, which was additional reassurance for me.

You also know that a childminder, the sole person in charge of your dc will have been inspected by Ofstead and have relevant health & Safety and FirstAid qualifications to be allowed to be a Childminder.

If im not being too cheeky can you tell me a bit more about what a childminder does? Do they have other staff for example. to help with feeding or changing.

all i read about them on here is the bad ones who take the kids to soft play and leave them? is it just like being in nursery for example? How many children does your cm look after on an average day.

Of course not I was exactly the same a few months ago - very uncertain about what a cm does and how it works.

I have a 3 year old in am nursery until 11.20 and a 5 year old in full time until 11.30. Dh and I take our lunch hours at the school pick up times and drop off to cm. So ds1 goes from 3.30-6.30 and ds from 11.30 to 6.30 for two days a week.

The cm works alone, so it's just her and she looks after them in her house. Sometimes her husband is there, who obviously sees and speaks to the other dc in her care but doesn't actively take any part in looking after her mindees (he is fully crb checked).

She gives ds2 both lunch and dinner and ds1 just dinner - generally she does sandwiches/salad/fruit/yoghurt for lunch and a cooked meal for dinner like spag bol/sausage and mash etc. Occasionally she'll ask if I mind if she takes them for a pizza or a McDonalds as a treat (I don't mind, she always asks though), but anywhere she takes them she will pay for, so it would be up to a cm how often/if they did this.

There aren't many days out atm, considering the weather but in the summer she'll take the children to parks/the beach etc. She's taken ds1 to softplay once in 5 months, so it doesn't seem to be a feature with her. She also openly admitted to me that she hates parent and baby/toddler groups, so it's not somewhere she goes...but both of mine have enough interaction at school and school nursery so that doesn't bother me.

CM has my two and she has two children of her own, a 6 year old a few months older than ds1 and a 10 month old baby. In addition to them she has two other she minds occasionally...another 6 year old who is there after school a few nights a week (only one of those when my dc are there) and a 4 year old who she has on a flexible basis as her parents work shifts...so sometimes she's there after school both nights or no nights. So the maximum I've seen her with at one time is two six year olds (one her own), a five year old (mine), a four year old, a three year old (mine) and her ten month baby.

That sounds a lot, but when it coincides that she has them all together, the dynamic is fab...my 5 year old and the two 6 year olds have become firm friends and formed a little group. My 3 year old has also made friends with the 4 year old she minds and loves going there to play with her. The baby is obviously a bit left out, but all the kids seem to look at her like a little sister and are very sweet and caring to her, it's lovely to see.

Because of the other children there, my two view it as 'going to their friends house after school'. In fact, a couple of weeks ago a friend said to my eldest ds 'How do you like your childminder' and he looked at her blankly, he had no idea what a 'childminder' is. To him, it's just a friend of the family that is fun and he goes to visit.

In regards to payment, we pay through the tax-free vouchers, which all CMs will be able to accept on the same basis that a nursery does. Once a month, in advance.

I've rambled an awful lot...but if there are any other questions you have, feel free.

Couple of questions why did being asked if he still has a nap ring alarm bells? Are you not expected to provide a change of clothes for your ds, what was the previous procedure if he spilt something on himself?

thankyou, Ive started to look on some forums for cm's theres one at the end of my street!!! literally about 20 houses away! cant believe it.

The only reason i chose the nursery in the 1st place was to allow ds to be around other kids, hes an only child at the moment and he does love being with other children, the thing that bothers me about cm's is they dont have many children and i worry would he still get the same stimulation from that environment but right now i think the positives far outweigh the cons!

Im going to talk to his nursery about the trousers incident tomorrow and make them aware im not happy, but with the view he will be leaving as soon as i can get him somewhere else, thankyou again!

I swapped my DS1 from a nursery to a cm because of staff changes and the difference in him is amazing. Go with your gut - I waited to see if it would improve and nearly quit my job because the nursery was so bad by the time we left.

The cm worked better for my DS as he still had the social aspect on a smaller scale but had more adult input. He was also taken to groups etc by the cm. I hope you get it all sorted soon. It isn't a nice feeling dropping them off when you don't trust the staff.

If the young girls aren't qualified they shouldn't be in charge of the room or even in there without a qualified person.

Speak to the manager. A good manager will reassure you and take steps to resolve the issues. A crap one will get defensive. That's how you weed out the shite nurseries!

This is why I chose a childminder - I knew exactly who would be looking after dd. I looked at several before I chose her. She also looks after another little boy a couple of months older than dd, she takes them to play groups each morning which lets them socialise with other children. And it's cheaper than a nursury! I'd really recommend childminders.

I work in a nursery but when I go back after mat leave when DS2 is 9 months he's going to a CM. I wouldn't use a nursery for a child that couldn't tell me if something was wrong. (Paranoid I know).

Wet clothes is a no no. Parents provide a change, if not we use spare clothing from our supply.
Children may come home grubby (paint, bit of yoghurt occasionally) but never in soaked clothing.

C - change nursery (or get a child minder, which I have found to be the better option for us).

I recently made a complaint about our before/after school club and it has been dealt with swiftly - they have to put things right immediately if there are problems. If you think it necessary, you should take this to ofsted.

I forgot to say, you should definitely log a complaint, even if you decide to move your lo. The fact that your child is distressed at the end of the day is not a good sign IMO.

I know a nursery judged outstanding, where 2 unqualified people run sessions together at non- peak times, ofsted if course don't see this.
Go with your gut feeling.

I started ds1 at a nursery, then switched to cm. I much prefer cm as they focus on your child and you can build a great relationship.

Start your hunt for a new nursery. You need to feel comfortable with the set up and that's not happening with the one you're in now.

My dd has used the same cm for 7 years now. I cannot praise her highly enough. She only ever has 3 under 5 and at least one of those is half days only. She does after school pickups for a couple more. She was Norland trained and is a farmer's wife.
Now my two dgc are just picked up by her after school, twice a week but she started when dgs1 was six months old ( now 7.3). Best of all she is loved by all her mindees. Too many good things to list but better than even the best nursery.

I wouldn't write all nurseries off because of this

They aren't all the same

8-6 however is a kind of standard shift for a nursery nurse, and a childminder may work quite a bit longer e.g 7-7 or even do overnights

My preference for a nursery over a childminder is the security. With a childminder you can have you child alone with the childminder. You shouldn't get this in a good nursery and if you do then the best will have CCTV

move nurseries. Once you have doubts / problems it will always be nagging on your mind. We had DS at a nursery for 1 month at age of just under 2 then moved him as the staff seemed young, inexperienced and a bit clueless. We are much happy with the nursery he's been at for just over a year where the staff don't sit around chatting to each when you get in, seem pleased to see him, and they always take good care.
You could complain but I would just move him, if they don't know how to do their job properly, a complaint won't change that.

A childminder operates in a far more 'family-oriented' setting, although she still has to plan her day with targets etc for OFSTED (barmy, imo).

And if you use a CM you will always know who is looking after your child. You have no control over how often nursery staff change.

Do you know other parents who will recommend a good CM?

I meet lots of cm at toddler groups with my three dc. Some are so lovely, take their minded children to a big variety of playgroups, activities, saw our local one at a zoo an hours drive away having a blast with her dd and the two minded children.

None of my three have been to nursery. I don't use a cm, I have a nanny, but I've twins and a toddler with an 18 month age gap so its cheapest for me. Should I change, it'd definitely be to a cm.

Council nursery workers are well paid, so the nurseries usually have good staff. You get what you pay for. Sounds like the owner wanted cheap staff, so got rid of lots of the expensive good ones.

Move. They might want to keep your deposit. If you kick up a big enough fuss they'll want you out ASAP, so complain about everything to Manager and other parents.