High earners should be charged for state schools!

[RawCoconutMacaroon]

BBC report this morning carries the suggestion from Dr Anthony Seldon, head of the private Wellington College, that parents with a family income of £80k should pay for state school places.

WTAF? Kind of ignoring the fact that it is ONLY people on fairly high incomes who actually pay enough tax to cover the cost of their child/children's state school place (roughly £4500 per year per child). Yes of course tax is collected according to an ability to pay and then distributed so all benefit from "free" education, which is right and proper...

BUT he thinks people who are already paying a lot in tax should effectively be penalised and charged again for their child's place at state school! Although maybe he's coming from the POV that if high income parents have to pay for state school, they will be more likely to pay out for their child to go to his private school.

I agree its happening in some areas now. In my local comps there is still mix of children, which is great. Seldons proposal would change that, therefore making the problem worse, and more wide spread rather than better.

This isn't about helping the schools in the poor areas. This is about making the more affluent areas pay for a state education, twice.

If it costs 4,500 to educate one child, we paid for our own and 8 others last year. That's not a problem, happy to contribute to society etc, etc. With that I support, and contribute to my children's state schools in many other ways. Force me to pay for it, they'll be educated in a fee paying school of my choice. I will no longer help my local state school, and ultimately I will want some kind of tax rebate.

I don't want to think like that, but I think I might become resentful. None of that helps state education, in rich or poor areas. It only creates a new income for private schools.

Ridiculous idea. They'll be no motivation for any child to try hard and succeed in school.

But we really couldn't ,whatever - even if I went back to work ( which would be difficult considering I've been a SAHM for 8 years) . Even if I went back to my old pretty well paid job (25k p/a) I'd probably only be able to afford to send one of them private after I've paid for before and after school child care and my season ticket.

I honestly think that if this ever actually happened it would push my DH over the edge. He works such long hours and our disposable income has been gradually eaten away over the last 3 or 4 years. He doesn't get bonuses anymore and because of a PAYE cock up by his employers he is being taxed to the eyeballs to pay back a 10k underpayment. His pension has already been drastically reduced so he can't even look forward to a comfortable retirement. I think he would just give up.

Just out of interest, what would happen when parents were told to pay, but didn't?

In a private school, the children would be removed from school if the fees weren't paid, but presumably the state would still have an obligation to provide a school place?

I know that the original proposal is to make parents pay for popular schools, but in my little corner of SW London, every single primary school is oversubscribed. All of them. Which by default makes them all popular.

So if I refuse to pay my fees, then what? Do I then also get prosecuted?

Obviously, the whole idea was an inflammatory suggestion to get a debate started (and it is working!) but as a policy suggestion, it isn't very well thought through.

This reminds me of a debate on the radio a few weeks ago - The plitician used Wayne Rooney as an example "If he's earning £250k per week what right should he have free state school education" to which the counterpoint was "Maybe he has a right because he's paying over £125k a week in taxes? Maybe the discussion should be what right do people who make no contribution have?

PS - Obviously Wayne Rooney himself has no right to a free education - but obviously I'm talking about his kids :) Although given his response in interviews maybe a trip back to school would be good for him.

Dumb idea, so stupid

So we will end up with wealthier people not wanting to pay for state schools, so choosing independent schools, so all the poor plebs like my children at state schools

I think people will give up putting the extra hours in when they get near 80k,it's already happening with the CB threshold at £60k.

Utter madness.

My kids are getting a great education in their state primary, and we are lucky to have 3 decent state secondaries nearby (London) which we are considering. If Seldon's proposals came in, we would have to cough up £40k for them to attend the local state schools (good, but not fantastic, although all oversubscribed), or we could spend extra to send them private (if they passed the exams). Frankly in that situation I would send them private (Dulwich College would cost us c£35k at today's prices). I would be getting something for my money, whereas paying £40k to send them to the state schools would feel like a massive increase in my tax bill with not a lot to show for it.

I don't expect much sympathy on MN, but it is a dim idea. It would end up with my kids leaving the State system (and they are bright and motivated) and us no longer supporting a local school (we are pretty active with the PFA). Win win for private, lose lose for state.

AngelsWithSilverWings - I didn't say that you could do it (choose to send your children to private school rather than pay towards a state school).
I am just making the point that many people on that kind of salary, particularly parents of secondary school age children who don't pay for child care and often don't have particularly large mortgages etc. Therefore a policy such as the one suggested by Seldon would increase the number of children going to private schools.

Which is of course why he suggested it!

John I think that is what he wants.

More places for poorer families and more people paying and propping up the private system the Tories love for their kids so much.

Several private schools running into trouble round here as numbers drop.

It's win win for the Tories.

Retropear
You might be right about the eventual outcome of a scheme like this being implemented
But as has been mentioned a few times upthread, the headteacher who suggested this is an avid and committed Labour supporter, who has written several glowing books on Tony Blair. This isn't Tory education policy by stealth!

I know it wasn't personal whatever - it's fine, but I really am struggling with this idea. We have a small mortgage, we have no child care costs , we have a very simple life really and yet I know that there is no budget for school fees. We are better off than most who earn the same because we got on the housing ladder before things went mad so if we can't afford it - who can? I know it's a luxury me being a SAHM but there are reasons why I had to make that choice. I've defended that choice many times on here!

We have friends who have sent their kids to private school. One was earning three times what my DH earns and the other family earn a bit more but get help from his parents.( All the men work for the same company in case you were wondering how I'd know what they earn.) They went state primary for both kids and have gone private for the one who failed to get into the grammar.

The fact that he's written several glowing books on Tony Blair is more worrying to me than this incoherent utterance.

oh look, its the tories floating an idea just to see how much public support or outrage they get. anyone in any doubt that this is coming? I am not. that's the whole idea of creating academies. hive them off from overall local authority control this gives them the power to set their own admissions criteria and hey presto some start charging for you to go there. to start with based on the ability to pay with free places. Mr Gove and his marvellous inclusive ideas strikes again. give it 5 years... it will be here.

Tony Blair is hardly your average labour politician.

My dp calls him a closet Tory.

Mummy it's won't be here in 5 years as they won't be in power.

Seriously who is going to vote for them?

The poor won't,anybody on any kind of benefit won't,those from 30- 70k have been shat on and now the bracket just above have this looming over them.Anybody with a sahp or who are unmarried are hardly going to be rushing to vote Tory either.Students won't.

A few grey voters and the uber rich won't be enough.Relax it won't happen.

I love that people still think that this is a stelthy tory policy!

As well as several glowing books on Tony Blair, he has also written a sycophantic account of Brown's time in power AND a critical one about Thatcher AND he is a columnist for New Statesman and the Guardian.

People, this is not Gove's best mate...

Listening to this on radio, with the director of the social foundation, and someone on £80k would need to pay in region of £14k for 2 kids ..... wtf! This country is screwed!

We are better off than most who earn the same because we got on the housing ladder before things went mad so if we can't afford it - who can? I know it's a luxury me being a SAHM but there are reasons why I had to make that choice. I've defended that choice many times on here!

Well DH and I could if we really had to and I'm sure we're not the only ones (As I said, I would work more hours though to increase our income and make a lot of sacrifices).

Overall, more children would go to private school (which I am sure is the real aim of the suggested policy).

If any Political Party had even the remotest idea of introducing Fees for state schools , their share of the vote would drop in to single figures.

As for saying its the TORIES! floating Ideas, well that would be rather stupid of them considering that probably 8 out of ten families earning over 80k a year tend to vote conservative.

Retro

You never know how people will vote though. After living through several Tory Govs I never thought society would be stupid enough to vote them in again, but they managed it, whether coalition or not.

I have a tendency to agree with Mummy, unless they are voted out, this will be a possibility however far fetched it seems now.

I also believe that Gov are making it very difficult for parents to see any value in state education, so that they won't take much pushing to leave for private or H.ed