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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Trying to be a fair landlord.

35 replies

exleodensian · 17/01/2014 23:03

We own a rental property that is split in to two separate self-contained flats.

The upstairs tenant is my DH’s son, and he has sole use of the back yard.
There is a small area to the side of the property that is designated as a parking space for the property.
DH and his son have fenced off this area, and son wants it as a garden for himself. DH agrees to this.
I think it is only fair to let the downstairs tenant have the use of this space, and it is unreasonable for the son to be allowed both spaces.

DH thinks the tenant rents the flat, not the garden space, and it is up to him as the owner, as to who can use the space.
DH has said that if the upstairs tenant was not his son, he would allocate the side area to the downstairs flat.
Son does not pay the full market rent for the property.

AIBU thinking each flat should have one of the outside spaces?

OP posts:
laughingeyes2013 · 17/01/2014 23:16

I would have thought that if there are tenants already in the downstairs flat, then to remove the space they've used for themselves is unreasonable.

However if it is unoccupied then I can understand wanting to give a son the best deal possible.

The problems I would foresee are:

  1. People not wanting to rent a property with an unfair arrangement.
  1. Your son claiming all the ground and then moving on, leaving you the problem of suddenly changing documents to offer half of the outside space to downstairs tenants.

If you've got a plan o cover these angles then I don't see how it's particularly unreasonable.

If the son expects you to have an unrentable downstairs flat, for his own pleasure, that would be unreasonable!

Quoteunquote · 17/01/2014 23:16

It would be kindest thing to do,

and good business sense, as it far cheaper to retain a good tenant, than to have a rotating door routine, and good tenants will want some outside space, or be thinking about upgrading.

I am responsible for a number of rental properties, I would divide the outside spaces,

and when your son starts paying full rent he will be able to decide what sort of property he gets to live in, until then it is , you get what you are given.

That exactly how we operate with our children.

WooWooOwl · 17/01/2014 23:52

It depends on whether the yard can be used as a parking space, what parking is like around the property, whether the tenant is paying a fair rent for the flat without the parking space and whether they would want it or would be prepared to pay for it.

Tbh, if I were in your DHs position, I'd want my son to benefit form my property and if I had the same things available to give then I would want to give them. It's not detrimental to anyone else, so if the tenant is ok it's not a problem.

Do you both own the property 50/50?

Original poster
exleodensian · 18/01/2014 01:15

The property is in my DH's name for tax purposes, but was purchased with joint money so I should say it is owned 50/50.

The son does not drive so does not need the back yard as a parking space. Plenty of on-road parking nearby.
He is unemployed, and the property was bought initially, to give him a roof over his head; hence the cheap rent.
The downstairs tenant was a sitting tenant when we bought the property, and since he is an alcoholic, does n0t care one way or another, about the space.
We will be ending his tenancy fairly soon, so my question is really for a possible new tenant. The property will be extensively refurbished and I think to attract a ‘decent’ tenant, the outdoor space would be an advantage.

OP posts:
horsetowater · 18/01/2014 01:19

Depends on whether the tenants rented it with use of the garden. If they thought it was theirs then you can't take it away from them now.

If DH son wants a garden he can find another property that has one. Or get an allotment for £50 a year.

BillyBanter · 18/01/2014 01:20

Some flats have outdoor space and some don't. Rent rates will reflect this. If you advertise it without outdoor space then prospective tenants can make an informed decision as to whether it suits their needs or not.

PrincessPeashooter · 18/01/2014 07:18

Does the son pay rent and if he is unemployed is it covered by HB? Be careful as it sounds like the tenancy may be contrived which could result in a fraud investigation.

MidniteScribbler · 18/01/2014 07:33

I would split it, because then you will get better rent on the downstairs flat. If your son wants an outdoor space and a carpark, then he should be prepared to pay market rent and for you not to be out of pocket.

newbiefrugalgal · 18/01/2014 07:35

I think it needs to be split. Will appeal to more future tenants.
Son is being selfish

TheGreatHunt · 18/01/2014 07:40

How nearby is the parking? Because your downstairs tenants may use it already eg for builders etc.

If I were the tenants I would move.

WooWooOwl · 18/01/2014 10:18

If the son doesn't drive and has no need for a parking space then I can see your POV more.

Maybe when you have evicted the tenant and are trying to attract another, at presumably the best rent possible, you can look into how much extra rent the space could get you and it will be easier to make your case to your DH when you have some facts.

Original poster
exleodensian · 18/01/2014 10:33

Princess, we have been totally honest with the Housing Benefit claim with regard to the family link. The claim was checked by the Council for 'commerciality' and approved,so there will be no fraud investigation. Not least because I am a benefit fraud investigator, and it is more than my job's worth, to commit fraud.

OP posts:
aquashiv · 18/01/2014 10:56

The rules where we live state HB would not be covered if your landlord was a close family member.

horsetowater · 18/01/2014 11:34

I actually sense there is a bit of a problem with the son being unemployed and housed in a flat for free. Is this temporary unemployment or has he been unemployed for a log time? If he is in his early twenties he's not going to be rushing out for work soon if he doesn't have to do much for a living.

Are you a bit irritated by the son having the flat?

In terms of having outside space - I think you should negotiate with the next tenant. If they want the ouside space and take care of it then let them have it at an extra cost. Most people won't want someone else sitting outside their bedroom in sunny weather.

PrincessPeashooter · 19/01/2014 02:56

The property was bought to give your DSS a roof over his head hence the cheap rent and preferential distribution of the land? Yet you are a Fraud Investigator? That is not a true commercial rental agreement and if you were a Fraud Investigator you would know that. The tenancy is completely contrived and would be immediately be rejected if the true facts were presented. Unfortunately you may be for real as standards and knowledge have dropped like a fucking stone, for gods sake get a new job as you clearly have no idea how you current one works, unless you're in management? Not having a fucking clue is par for the course there.

DisgraceToTheYChromosome · 19/01/2014 09:03

Hmm.

Non-market rent, close family member, presumably no written agreement, and HB?

Chinny reckon.

Joysmum · 19/01/2014 10:29

It doesn't matter what you decide as long as it is clear in the tenanancy agreement for both flats what they are paying for.

So if the downstairs flat includes use of the side, you can't suddenly take that away from them.

To me, this OP reads like reads like a family issue to do with your resenting the advantages given to the son, not anything to do with being a good landlord and that's just a convenient platform for your objections because you don't feel able to object using your real reasons.

WooWooOwl · 19/01/2014 10:32

What's wrong with renting out a property to a family member?

Normalisavariantofcrazy · 19/01/2014 10:37

The son will have no desire to get a job for as long as you continue to subsidise him and why would you evict him when you're getting a nice return from the state in the form of his housing benefit? Nice arrangement all round really.

WooWooOwl · 19/01/2014 10:54

I don't think it's necessarily true that the son won't have incentive to get a job if he's getting a subsidised rent. Rents are very high in many areas and that's why many young people have to live at home with their parents for longer than they would like to.

There's nothing wrong with providing your own son or daughter with a helping hand, especially at the start of their adult lives.

whatever5 · 19/01/2014 11:29

I don't think it's a question of being fair to your tenants. You and your DH will be the ones who lose out, not the tenants, if you rent the lower flat without the garden/parking space as you won't be able to charge as much rent.

horsetowater · 19/01/2014 11:34

I was gently pushed out of home to find my way in the world, it's the best thing my parents did. Keeping them at home is a big mistake imo, unless they have extenuating circumstances.

lurkerspeaks · 19/01/2014 11:54

Would the parking space help to attract a good tenant? In some places guaranteed off street parking would be more valuable than a garden.

I think you need to look to protect your asset and maximise your rent given that you are already partially subsidising your DH's son.

IneedAsockamnesty · 19/01/2014 11:55
Hmm

If neither her nor her partner live in the property and dss would also be expected to pay rent if in work and the rent is at or above the LHA and dss is not legally a dependant it's highly unlikely to be a contrived tenancy.

Did some of you just see the words landlord and HB then decide to pile in?

horsetowater · 19/01/2014 12:12

OP do you foresee stepson getting a job in the near future? When he does will he pay you the same rent?

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