School Abscense Fine - huge amount

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If I am correct, if you take your child/ren out of school without prior agreement, there is an automatic fine of £60/day/child/parent?

So for us, a family with 3 children, a 2 week holiday in (say) June, would cost us £3600 - or double that if we don't pay within a certain amount of time!

Is it me to think that is totally unreasonable?!

That is a huge amount. The people who take their children out normally can't afford the hike in holiday prices, so how on earth would they afford the fine?

I totally support the introduction of large fines and as far as I am concerned they can get social services involved as well to help parents to get their priorities right

Please see my post below.
My local council is Bham- Social services dept in this city have difficulty keeping children alive, I would be pissed right off if I had any SW at my door commenting on my priorities because I want to take my kids to France for five days. They should be out looking after vulnerable children. Not harassing easy targets.

I really don't get this argument that parents should be able choose when their children go on holiday.

I am an adult. Can I choose when I go on holiday? No. I'm at the whim of my employer as to when they will allow it. If they say I can’t go and I choose to anyway, I am likely to get a “warning”. Potentially I could lose my job.

Really don’t see how this is very different to the way schools work.

i wouldn't risk being open coldlight - not when being open could mean being criminalised.

Tiredemma and meditrina, I won't pretend to know the details of how it operates, but some schools are already setting their own dates. A friend of mine has three kids and they will all eventually go to the same school but at the mo one is at secondary and the younger two are in a junior school. The two schools, although in the same education authority, have different half term dates. It's a proper nightmare (not to mention expensive) for her to try and cover two lots of holiday as it is; she's a single parent so doesn't have the luxury of another person being around with leave to juggle with her.

Not sure why being a single parent is relevant at all, I am a single parent we will holiday within our means during school holidays.

If you choose to send your child to school rather than home educate then barring illness or major emergencies you send them into school. They have plenty of holiday time. If you decide to take them out that's your choice but don't complain when you are fined.

The 2004 case I linked was meant to show that fines (and even imprisonment) for unauthorised absences have been 'tested' in the sense that it has been through the Courts and upheld. It's not a unique case - not many parents have been imprisoned, but there are plentiful examples of fines contested in Court being upheld (and btw increased). And this applies to any form of unauthorised absence because that is how the fines regime was set up over a decade ago.

i don't need to negotiate that midnight. i make the decision - i don't need permission. if i'm working it out so that my son's education isn't effected, my financial situation isn't effected and no one else is effected in any way that is quite enough. i don't need to go cap in hand to the school or anyone else.

I don't think fines are an attack on the poor, ime it's not the poor that want to take their darlings on a '2 week enriching trip of major European cities/trip to Disneyland Florida/ off-peak skiing trip'. If anything it's an attack on the entitled middle.

As for the 'enriching experience so much more valuable than school' argument, I have been dismayed to find that my children are no more enriched by foriegn travel than by a week in the Lakes/Devon/Northumberland. Yes, holidays are enriching but when you're seven the world is all pretty new to you, so you don't need exposure to the rich culture of the Carribean to make you into a rounded person (unless you have roots/family there).

i think maybe this thread shows how far we've strayed into seeing the state owning you as the norm.

ds is MY son. my responsibility and choices. if my choices are neglectful or damaging or reckless there are systems in place to deal with that. but if i am simply exercising responsible control over my life without negative consequences then the state has absolutely no business being involved.

totally agree midnight - there is a lot of complaining and very little communication - school head teachers are under pressure to be strict about leave in term time - but they are human beings as well and should listen if you approach them reasonably and with an open mind.

But other people will be affected! And I am always a bit staggered when parents are so confident their childrens' education won't be affected - how can you be so sure? And if you are sure that your child learns and does nothing of any value in a week at school - why send him at all?

Ermm a week in the Lakes and Devon during school hols are out of most people's budget when you factor in inflated prices,petrol and spending.

The fact people don't realise this is telling.

The more I hear about this, the more resentful I feel, for several reasons.

1. It's another kick in the arse for the poor. What this government wants is for its rich mates to be able to have a quality of life. The rest of us can live in drudgery with only increasing bills and less money to look forward to.

1. I think it's cute that there are so man posters deluding themselves that this new rule is for the benefit of our children's education. Don't be fooled. It's a money-making exercise.

1. A child missing a week of school to spend quality time with over-worked parents isn't going to bring the country to its knees. MPs shagging us up the collective arse by claiming expenses on mops and buckets, ridiculous and undeserved payrises and cutting benefits from the most vulnerable WILL bring us to our knees. Stop turning against each other! We all have our different values; some parents believe that a child needs to be in school each and every day of term, others don't. It's nothing to do with either faction what the other faction believes in.

1. I am resentful of living in a nanny state, where a head and a parent cannot reach an agreement together on time out of school. Our head is also resentful as she feels that it is damaging to school/parent relationships and preferred being in control of granting leave.

1. A blanket ban is ridiculous and richer folk will not let a £120 fine stop them. Again, it's only the poor that are being shafted.

i don't want to talk to a headteacher about my private life and business in order to be granted permission to do something. perhaps that makes me a monster in some eyes but ffs - i am 38 years old. my son is exceeding expectations in all areas, his attendance is excellent, his behaviour impeccable and is a joy to teach. that is enough. i don't owe them private details about my mental health or finances or blah blah blah and i don't need their permission for anything that doesn't effect them in the slightest.

If you're talking about the example of my friend, it's because they as a family only have five weeks' holiday a year. That's difficult enough to cover 13 weeks, but it becomes impossible when there are two lots of 13 weeks to cover. It's easier if there's two of you because that adds up to ten weeks' holiday a year which of course isn't sufficient either but it helps a lot.

and i'm a teacher - i wouldn't expect a grown adult to have to come and tell me about their incredibly personal business in order to justify their child not coming to school for a few days. i would never want an adult to be in that position of beholdance to me or any colleague.

Theoriginal my kids did buggar all during in the last two weeks of July.They watched endless DVDs,stripped the classroom,did countless worksheets and had extended play times.

The above doesn't bother me as they're knackered by then but sorry I won't be told that the above is more worthy than a week away as a family.

"The more I hear about this, the more resentful I feel, for several reasons.

1. It's another kick in the arse for the poor. What this government wants is for its rich mates to be able to have a quality of life. The rest of us can live in drudgery with only increasing bills and less money to look forward to.

1. I think it's cute that there are so man posters deluding themselves that this new rule is for the benefit of our children's education. Don't be fooled. It's a money-making exercise.

1. A child missing a week of school to spend quality time with over-worked parents isn't going to bring the country to its knees. MPs shagging us up the collective arse by claiming expenses on mops and buckets, ridiculous and undeserved payrises and cutting benefits from the most vulnerable WILL bring us to our knees. Stop turning against each other! We all have our different values; some parents believe that a child needs to be in school each and every day of term, others don't. It's nothing to do with either faction what the other faction believes in.

1. I am resentful of living in a nanny state, where a head and a parent cannot reach an agreement together on time out of school. Our head is also resentful as she feels that it is damaging to school/parent relationships and preferred being in control of granting leave.

1. A blanket ban is ridiculous and richer folk will not let a £120 fine stop them. Again, it's only the poor that are being shafted"

Brilliant.

meditrina just because rule was legal when it came into force, doesn't mean that adjustments to it are.

But of course it Affects them! They'll be the ones who have to help your son catch up!

Numpty can I ask what subject/age you teach?

i don't need to negotiate that midnight. i make the decision - i don't need permission. if i'm working it out so that my son's education isn't effected, my financial situation isn't effected and no one else is effected in any way that is quite enough. i don't need to go cap in hand to the school or anyone else.

Well the law seems to disagree with you on that one. If you choose to educate your child within the education system instead of home education, then yes, you do need to negotiate with the school at times.

Do you really not see how your actions can impact other people? How about the teacher who has to do extra work to catch your child up? How about your child's peers who will have to wait while he catches up? How about how members of a child's project group will have to pick up the slack for his part of an assessment? You're being very naive if you think your actions have no impact upon others.

The rules do still allow for a head teacher to grant authorised leave in exceptional circumstances. I think that would extend to families where there is genuinely no prospect of a holiday in the school holidays due to a parent's job. It is true that the fine is very large to deter people taking unauthorised absences but because it won't be applied until day 6 of UA parents still have a degree of discretion whether the absence is appropriate.