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School Abscense Fine - huge amount

955 replies

PMDD · 16/01/2014 08:08

If I am correct, if you take your child/ren out of school without prior agreement, there is an automatic fine of £60/day/child/parent?

So for us, a family with 3 children, a 2 week holiday in (say) June, would cost us £3600 - or double that if we don't pay within a certain amount of time!

Is it me to think that is totally unreasonable?!

That is a huge amount. The people who take their children out normally can't afford the hike in holiday prices, so how on earth would they afford the fine?

OP posts:
formerbabe · 16/01/2014 09:28

I find it the height of arrogance to take children out of school for holidays. The fine is optional...if you don't want a fine, then don't take them out of school.

Ubik1 · 16/01/2014 09:29

I'm already a taxpayer. Why should I pay twice?

The 'I'm a taxpayer' argument trotted out constantly is really tedious. It's not some special status.

And we are human beings not effing walking CVs frankly I don't see the function of education as producing a 'globally competitive' product.

bellybuttonfairy · 16/01/2014 09:29

I didnt think that asking the teacher for some info re work to do to help was such a big deal midnightscribbler. Surely you use aids to help you teach?

If you werent so against telling a parent what they can go over with their children - maybe you wouldnt have such a big deal or angst in getting children to catch up.

I wasnt going to apologise for it but I would give thanks.

Thatisall · 16/01/2014 09:30

winter that makes no sense. We all pay taxes one way it another therefore we all pay for schools and the NHS.

Crowler · 16/01/2014 09:30

Presumably a bunch of parents abused the discretion they used to have and it became disruptive, hence the fine.

I sympathize with people who are very keen on seizing the day & doing adventurous/educational things with their kids. I think these people would probably be better off home-educating their kids to be honest. I think it's pretty bad when people choose to take their older kids out of school during term time for a package holiday.

winterchunderland · 16/01/2014 09:31

"I don't see the function of education as producing a 'globally competitive' product."

You cannot be serious?

Ubik1 · 16/01/2014 09:31

That's the height of arrogance????

I would think more along the lines of MPs expenses etc...but whatever...

Boreoff456 · 16/01/2014 09:32

cold your not nosey. She went back in class 4 and is now in class 5.

We used loads of different tools. From BBC bitesized to the local HE network. The LA were very helpful and were always available for advice. And yes we used holidays. Dd speaks French, Spanish and a small amount of Greek (places we have been). Her Egyptian topic at school was easy because we have been and visited and I am a bit of an part time Egyptologist (hobby).

The head teacher was excellent dd was brought in and some her potential classmates showed her round. She watched the play they were doing and they even found her a part so she was included. She attend a couple of taster days and the head spoke to her and explained it was so she could decide if it was the right thing for her.

They have been fab. Couldn't ask for a better school. She did attend an academy when she was young but we weren't happy with it. Seemed more interested in remaining 'outstanding' than the pupils themseleves. But that's another thread.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 16/01/2014 09:32

No Belly, because the worksheet or powerpoint or whatever would be in partnership with what actually happens in the lesson, I would imagine, not just children sitting quietly getting through worksheets that could equally well be done at home. I teach students and get really annoyed when they say 'I cannot come this morning but I will catch up if you send the powerpoint'. Er, no you won't. You miss it - you missed it.

We're only having one week in the sun this summer as DP is away for a week in the school holidays and we can't fit in longer - I don't think it will kill us!

Bodicea · 16/01/2014 09:32

Tired - it comes back to the time honoured argument of why should the sensible majority suffer because a few people take the mikky.
Personally I am sick of rules regulations being hoisted upon me because of a stupid minority. If my children end up missing the odd day/week once in a while I know it won't affect their education in the long run because of what I put into their education the rest of the time and I don't see why an irresponsible minority should affect that.
( I should add this is philosophical - I only have a ten week old baby :-) )

formerbabe · 16/01/2014 09:33

What on earth has MPs expenses got to do with it?!

Can they not both be considered arrogant?!

Retropear · 16/01/2014 09:33

What Custardo said but it's not just an attack on the poor bit the squeezed middle too and quite frankly it stinks.

If holidays and experiences with families are so worthless why do rich families including Dave and co pay premium prices to show their kids the world and take them on countless trips abroad.

I find it worrying that only the rich will be able to show their children other countries,experiences in this country and give them aspirations.

If these experiences are so worthless why do schools offer them throughout the year(for the same rich kids again who can afford it)?Why is it ok for schools to publish enrichment week booklets offering trips that range from surfing to a week in London for the best part of £400 simply to see shows and the London Eye? Why can't families spend that £400 and spend that week doing something en familie?

Why can't we take our kids away during the last week in July when all they're doing is boring our dc shatless with DVDs and death by work sheet?

Why are private school parents allowed to have much shorter terms and take advantage of cheaper prices.Surely if their kids/education are so equal a week off for state kids which will still mean they're in school waaaay more is neither here nor there?

Why are some kids allowed to go on as many sporting fixtures as the school wants in order to make the school look good thus missing the equivalent of several days in school but others can't have a miserly week away with their family?

Do the Tories actually know how even camping in England is out of most families budget.We normally camp in Cornwall and it costs ££££s.Sites are now very expensive in August,you need half decent kit or you will get wet,cold and soggy.On top of petrol and numerous rainy day plan B options it isn't cheap.You also come back knackered.

My dp has a stressful job and camping in rainy UK isn't a holiday when you need a rest.My parents paid for us to go to France last tear.Oh my god it was like a shot in the arm.Actual sun and the things my kids experienced that I took for granted as a kid.Foreign currency,food,different scenery,travel........

Sooo I looked this year for a week anywhere in Europe in August for 5. It is eye watering,even driving through France with tolls,petrol,accommodation costs hundreds of pounds,that is before you pay top premium for a caravan somewhere and spending money.Families do NOT have 2 or 3k just lying about.Forget about flying and hiring a car.

It pisses me off that my kids have never been in a plane.We live in a global world,our kids need to see the rest of the world to be able to compete.By the time I was their age I'd flown round the world twice and travelled extensively round Europe.My parents took us in the last 2 weeks of July and the cost of living was lower.

It is a sledgehammer to crack a nut,utterly patronising and shit.Truants will still truant,those with good attendance will still have good attendance.I think this will come back to bite the Tories on the bum and I can't wait to sit back and watch.

Naff off Gove.

Blush Epic post !

Ubik1 · 16/01/2014 09:33

Why wouldn't I be serious?

NumptyNameChange · 16/01/2014 09:33

i'm amazed so many are so pro the fines.

i just keep wondering if they're actually legal? re: i can see fining you for taking your child out but how the hell can they impose fines for the adult? there is no law broken by an adult going on holiday in term time and it's stazi like to do so.

i'm a teacher but i still believe that parents should have the right to decide if their child is able to take a week off of school (especially when it's end of term bloody videos and carol singing and what not) for a trip that will be enriching for the whole family. i believe a mother has the right to assess that actually she really bloody needs a break and change of scene right now if her family is to smoothly function for the next year. or if you have had a nightmare time of stress and hell that has impacted on you all and genuinely believe it will save your family and sanity to have a few days away together etc.

the state does not own us or our children. i want to know if these fines are legal, there is no right of appeal so presumably someone would have to not pay then go to court and appeal there when they were prosecuted for non payment?

i can't see it is legal for mr smith to pay a fine because he went on holiday with his wife and children. i can see that the family have broken a rule on taking the children out and potentially could perhaps support a fine per child if it was regular and in the context of wider poor attendance. but to fine an adult for going on holiday is surely upholdable by law?

Boreoff456 · 16/01/2014 09:34

winter as I have stated not all schools feel that way. You obviously do. You are making assumptions.

winterchunderland · 16/01/2014 09:34

Thatisall

It was you who said you have physically paid for your kids education and NHS bill by way of your tax return.

I was merely responding that unless you're a very high earner you probably haven't.

My original point is that we collectively pay for the education of our countries children and that it is waste of the tax payers money to take kids out of school for a cheap holiday (apart form special circumstances).

bigmouthstrikesagain · 16/01/2014 09:34

I will continue to take hols during school hols. I never went on holiday as a child - We had days out and visited family. I am sure a trip to Florida or Thailand would have been very enriching but it was never an option - I don't feel deprived in the slightest. Grin

I have only taken my 3 children (aged between 5 and 9) out of school during term time twice, both for family visits (I have family in Channel Islands) who come to the mainland very rarely. Both times only for one day. We take the kids on day trips and go on short holidays in the school holiday periods. They are well stimulated and have plenty of family time and understand we prioritise school. If we need to take the children out in term time the future, we will - but I don't have any difficulty understanding the impact allowing free reign on term time hols has, every one has 'special' circumstances, everyone feels their situation deserves consideration. But if a school allows every hol request to go through unchallenged then the effect is potentially very disruptive. It is not so hard to imagine that - there is a surprising lack of empathy on this thread.

I understand the frustration at not being able to afford a 'proper' holiday - but I do not share it - We have the best holiday we can afford and make the most of it - even if part of it is spent camping on the floor in my welsh relatives living room! Children make holidays special but also quite hard work (when you have three close in age) - I do not have any interest in a long haul flight - with them at this age. Those that do - it must be frustrating.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 16/01/2014 09:35

a fortnight in Florida is more enriching and enervating to a child

I assume you didn't mean 'enervating'? Confused. And I bloody hope nobody would argue that a fortnight in DIsneyland is 'enriching'!

meditrina · 16/01/2014 09:36

Yes, the fines are legal: they were introduced in the 2003 Antisocial Behaviour Act.

Thatisall · 16/01/2014 09:36

Ahh Disney Wink

MidniteScribbler · 16/01/2014 09:36

Surely you use aids to help you teach?

I use plenty of things, but I can't provide you with two weeks worth of "worksheets" that parents think is the magical cure to taking two weeks off. And I would inevitably get back as a scrunched pile of incomplete paper that has been shoved in the bottom of the suitcase and ignored in favour of the beach. And the parents that think that two weeks of worksheets are going to make up for two missed weeks in the classroom are not the type taking their children on educational jaunts to Machu Picchu or Pompeii. They're the ones going on the cruise (it's always a cruise lately around here) where they'll shove the kids in the kids club while they do their own thing.

Boreoff456 · 16/01/2014 09:37

numpty I have actually heard that there is a challenge coming up. But i heard it through the HE network. Haven't seen an official document yet.

Although one guy is charging his school £11 per day for the strikes and is currently fighting that. On the basis he has to pay them to rake his child out, so they should pay him. Doubtful of his success, but you never know.

NumptyNameChange · 16/01/2014 09:39

that is not common law though is it? it's the other kind of law? sorry, i don't have the vocab.

and i would like to know if it is legal in a wider context re: the european court of human rights for example. i cannot compute a state has the legal authority to fine it's citizens for going on holiday.

Wallison · 16/01/2014 09:39

In these days of academies and free schools setting their own holiday dates, what happens if your kids' holidays don't coincide with one another? Do you get fined if you take one kid out so that they can go on holiday when the other kid has time off? They really haven't thought this through.

NumptyNameChange · 16/01/2014 09:39

i'll be interested to see what comes of it boreoff. i really can't see it being upheld if someone took it far enough.

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