School Abscense Fine - huge amount

[PMDD]

If I am correct, if you take your child/ren out of school without prior agreement, there is an automatic fine of £60/day/child/parent?

So for us, a family with 3 children, a 2 week holiday in (say) June, would cost us £3600 - or double that if we don't pay within a certain amount of time!

Is it me to think that is totally unreasonable?!

That is a huge amount. The people who take their children out normally can't afford the hike in holiday prices, so how on earth would they afford the fine?

Great attitude you've got there sofuckedup.
Of course parents can teach letter sounds but there is lot more to a day in school than that.

really - I

according to my sons school it's learn through play - I know what is best for my children and their education, not a faceless beauraucrat who had never met them and wants a one size fits all policy

I personally don't believe throwing them into school and letting their lives be restricted, at such a young age is best for them, they get more from me at the moment than they do from school - when we reach the stage school gives them more than me I'll be different again - as they grow their needs will change

They will get a more rounded education through travel - thankfully we have a head who agrees

I don't want them growing up with the narrow views of some who has never left their doorstep - I'm well travelled and I got a lot from it

When I was in school we were encouraged to stand up in class and talk about our experiences - and write about them, it was welcomed as a class learning experience

I've a friend who has taken her three out of school fir a month so they see family in Germany, another in Australia also seeing family,another in Saudi also seeing family and another in Pakistan...er also seeing family.

In Scotland we have no fines. If you are our longer than three months you lose your place. The education system has not yet collapsed.

thank you ubik1. apparently the English system will collapse if we go back to the previous system. the issue here is that yes the legislation has discretion built in for exceptional circumstances but this is SOLELY at the discretion of the H/T. she/he cant consult the governors or discuss and negotiate with parents. no, they have to make a yes no decision. and some heads are good at this. some however are not. they are told by Ofsted not to code too many authorised absences. in our school they have to refer all unauthorised codings on to the EWO. Are there no h/t out there who can say what a massive headache this is going to be to them? so I put in my form, I get denied, it goes to EWO. I wont pay the fine I get taken to court. and what do you think that is going to do for my relationship with my kids school? magnify that many times over across the country. I am not some feckless, useless parent. I take great pride in my kids achievements. home work is done and on time, in 5 years none of them have had a day off sick. even when it froze we got to school. I'll say it again - for all of your currently saying you agree with this law just wait because a time will come when you have a wedding hundreds of miles away and want to take the Friday off or your car will break down/someone will get sick and you cant get your kids back or you will want to see a relative visiting the country or whatever. and you just wont be able to do it. you are relying on a h/t discretion so you might get lucky. but really? just stop and think about the what ifs.

No, a time will NEVER come when I want to attend a wedding hundreds of miles away and want to take Friday off. I will NEVER want to see a relative visiting the country on a schoolday. If my car breaks down, that's what I have breakdown cover for - to either fix it or take me to my destination.

Those are, imo, all frivolous and avoidable reasons for not attending school and I would never expect that time off to be authorised and therefore would never take it. I would take the same attitude to time off from my job.

Yes, there may be times when there are very good reasons for requesting time off, but these are not them and that is why I for one can't see the validity in your argument.

you see, I like being the sort of person who puts family and relationships first, I actually think the chance for the children to spend the day with a relative they may never ever get to see again, far outweighs any benefit they will get from a day in school, unless there are exams looming - but I am not a compliant sheep who does what I am told and thinks what I am told to think

I used to be - I had my eyes opened about exactly what our children mean to this government and the education system when we needed support and help from them, changed my views somewhere since then, there was no help and no support, its all a one way street, no longer will I think that doing what we are told and belief in the "system" are the way forward.

I think there are really two questions here. Is it ok for children to miss school to go on holiday, and are the fines unjust?

for me the questions are:

-what rights do parents have over their children's lives?
-do they sacrifice all rights if they partake in state education?
-is it ok for the state to introduce fines for non criminal behaviours?
-should non elected lowish level officials have the right to impose fines unilaterally and without the right to appeal?

• the right to partake in state education, with the terms and conditions that entails
• no, but they need to follow the T&Cs of that education ie deliver children on time, collect them of time, get them required uniform etc
• you'll get a fine for non-criminal behaviour if you park in a local authority car park without a ticket, for example, so yes, this has precedent
• yes, this is fine - although I think there is a right to appeal

In the instance of a Friday wedding etc, I would not expect it to be authorised so I would take the decision as to whether it was important enough to our family to pay the fine and accept the absence mark. Schools are not saying you can't go, you still have 100% freedom to do so, they are simply saying they don't condone the absence.

I cannot believe how many people here are so institutionalised and indoctrinated into the school system, that they think it is OK for the gov to dictate how you choose to organize your family and limit your choices for your child. You really think it is OK for the gov. to say you cannot take your child out for a day for a family occasion without penalty?

Nobody has said that, cosi.

Children have a right to an education. This means, sometimes, protecting their education from parents whose definition of "family occasion" is ropey or who prioritise their desire for a fortnight in the sun over their children's schooling, or who need help getting themselves sufficiently organised that they can get their arses out of the house to get their children to class.

There are exceptional circumstances in which it is more beneficial for a child to be out of school than in - headteachers have the discretion to authorise time out in such situations.

By sending your children to school, you agree for them to be educated collectively, meaning the staff try and take the best decisions for the class as a whole.

Is the circumstance for which you want to take your child out exceptional enough that the benefit to your child outweighed the impact on them and the class from missing a day of school? If yes, it might be authorised; if not, you can go anyway if you think the benefit outweighs the penalty.

If your employer wouldn't give you time off to go to a wedding, you'd weigh up whether to go anyway and accept the verbal warning or whatever. Same general idea.

I am neither a "compliant sheep" nor "indoctrinated". Those are the age-old insults thrown around by people who just cannot accept that not everyone is of the same opinion they are.

You are my problem is this one:
If I park my car out of a designated area, I get a fine. If anyone else does, they get a fine too. If I do that in London, I get a fine just as if I was doing the same in York. The person who is giving the gine has no vested interest in giving you a fine. There is a clear rule, a clear fine(the same where ever you are) and if for whatever reason I think let's say the lines on the raid weren't clear and I couldn't have know or of I think the car was actually on the parking lines and not out if it, i can contact the relevant authority and ask for the fine to be lifted/reviewed. All that way before it would go to the court.

With this fine, one school mught say Yes and another say No to exactly the same circumstances (no equality if people in front of the law)
It's the HT who decides gas some particular interest in the attendance levels. If it's too low they will be in trouble from OFSTED with all the consequences going for the school and the teachers (and the children). So there udon neutrality from the person giving the sanction (imagine if a magistrate was evaluated on the nber if people convinced. Do you think trials would've fair?)
There is no appeal system only the possibility to go to court. Who in earth would choose that option compare to paying a hundred quid? Seen the points abive though, this us clearly an issue.

So whilst I would agree that there is no reason to take a hols during term time and that children education is crucial, I also believe that this rule is completely unfair and going against the meaning if a law ie everyone is under the same rules and will pay the same penalty for the same crime.
And THAT is something completely unacceptable.

Going to go against the tide here but... I'm a teaacher in a low-income area and honestly think that a young (primary) child with otherwise good attendance gains more from a weeks holiday, spending quality family time and another environment than a week at school. 2 weeks is a bit much and obviously wouldn't suggest it in a SATs year. Secondary is probabyly very different. I wouldn't think twice about giving my DC a decent and affordable holiday but my job means I', stuck paying rediculous school holiday prices :(

*I'm

mumnosbest I wish you were our head teacher. People are entitled to hold different opinions from me, I don't have a problem with that at all. I just think sometimes that you have to think ahead and look at the what if's. I have been self employed since having kids. if you had asked me 8 or 10 years ago when I had a 9 - 5 job with good hols and a good pension in Local Govt then I would have had a very different view. as others have said its about the principle of it being open to discretion. my kids are in different schools. what do I do if one grants and the others don't. all a bit bonkers really. still Mr gove and cronies can take their kids away cant they and his figures will look great at the end of the year so who cares.

As usual, the government are barking up the wrong tree, and we will have to endure the sight of ministers claiming 'success' : 'attendance has gone up' whereas everyone knows that it is the very poor attenders/chaotic families where nothing has changed.

Despite the late rule and 10 min meaning you are marked a half day unauthorised absence, I see the same people strolling in to school 20/30 minutes or later every single day. They just don't give a shit, they don't care if the EWO comes around and they have no intention of changing their behaviour whatsoever. Their attendance must be eye-poppingly bad, but they don't care as the education authority is obliged by law to provide them with a school place, and if the school they were in got rid of them, they would simply get a place elsewhere.

Is fining going to make any difference to them? No, they don't have any money anyway and won't pay any fines. They are just not bothered.

Frankly, I'd prefer a head teacher who knew my child and knew what was being taught in school on a particular da yet to use their judgement than have a "blind" decision made. Anyway, I think there are guidelines about what is exceptional - forces families etc - and Ofsted will question a high number of authorisations, so it will probably balance out over time.

exactly thetallesttower. the fines aren't actually going to make a difference to the families that need help and support to improve their childs attendance. it is just going to massage the figures for the politicians. look something has changed they will say when we will all know that it hasn't. it just lazy of the politicans and it is also actually lying. please put Mr Gove on MN so I can have this out with him directly. his letters to me just buck pass on to the heads who he "feels sure will use their discretion to give you leave on the basis of being constrained by your job" yeah right.

Dd's school only does academic lessons on 3 days per week, as with most other schools of this type. Dd also does miss school at least one day per month to work.

I cannot see taking a week off here and there is going to make that much difference in the grand scheme of things.

Our school is so focused on improving attendance 'on paper'. Children are brought to school and registered at 9 only to leave for the docs at 9:05. When it came to attendance awards I heard one child say 'I was only poorly once. It's not fair.' My colleague replied 'well just try not to be poorly next term'
If schools are given figures to meet, they will do whatever they can to meet them unfortunately.

Doctrine I am very happy to see that your HT has your full confidence.
However as you can see this is not the case for quite a few parents.

And as far as I am know there isn't a list (such as armed forces etc...) that has been set up. It's all to the discretion if the HTs who will have a different idea of what us ok or not.

I know you are really pro this law but maybe you would care to explain to me how the points I have raised before (no equality in treatment , vetted interest from the HT etc) can be acceptable regardless of the law and how good it us or not.

mummy we have that too along side the request of taking children to their appointment at end if the morning/day.
Except that having done that (by chance I have to say) I got the feeling the teachers have found it more disturbing to the class...,