School Abscense Fine - huge amount

[PMDD]

If I am correct, if you take your child/ren out of school without prior agreement, there is an automatic fine of £60/day/child/parent?

So for us, a family with 3 children, a 2 week holiday in (say) June, would cost us £3600 - or double that if we don't pay within a certain amount of time!

Is it me to think that is totally unreasonable?!

That is a huge amount. The people who take their children out normally can't afford the hike in holiday prices, so how on earth would they afford the fine?

Oh, ok. Yes, I saw you resisting the old hyperbole there.... I guess I could scare up an individual situation and context or two, full of 'specifics', but I can't see it would be terribly helpful.

meh. the particular 'specifics' i'm talking about encompass the five secondary schools i've worked in but hey, they might all be weird anomalies that mislead people as to the rule so i call them specifics and individual circs.

some parents may be totally cool with chunks of their child's education being taken up by teachers having to deal with swearing, non compliant, abusive teenagers obstructing a lesson starting. and hey it's only in about say 1 in 4 classes that i've taught that it's that bad so no big deal eh?

and certainly nowhere NEAR as big a problem as johnny going to switzerland a week before the end of summer term

You've worked in some seriously shit schools, Numpty. I'm not denying that some teachers' behaviour management skills leave a bit to be desired but really?

Shit, I hadn't realised what my kids were going through every day! Have you a link for Disneyworld, quick!?

ya sure, it's all about teacher's behaviour management skills. nothing to do with the fact that comprehensive education means comprehensive and includes everyone re: those who'll end up in prison, those who'll be paedophiles, those who will beat the shit out of their wives and children, those who'll be on jeremy kyle, etc.

it's those shit teachers and i must just have been at exceptional schools in the 2 opposite ends of the country counties i've worked in.

kids don't get bullied, harassed, sexually assaulted etc in schools. no, no, no. schools are perfect and when they're not it must be a teacher's fault not the fact that they are microcosms of society.

Numpty is spot on I reckon.

never mind the fact that we're teaching fully diagnosed pyschopaths, children who have already committed sexual assaults on siblings and others, children who are in care because of their parents addictions and abuse, children who have been taken out of war torn countries where human rights didn't come near the table and children whose parents haven't spoken to them weeks at a time. no, it must be those shit teachers.

school is the micro version of society. if society has violent, disturbed, broken, angry, sociopathic, depressed, misogynistic, racist, homophobic, fundamentalist, etc etc etc factions so too does school. i appreciate this MAY be less apparent at primary level and the children more compliant but with say 2000 teens in one cramped site that was built to accommodate 700 the problems may become more visible.

conforming, law abiding parents send their children into these places on good faith. they don't complain that their children are suffering in the face of social problems they are not a part of. they don't refuse to send their kids into potentially abusive and disturbing environments. they are good, they do as they are told and comply. now it turns out they are criminals if they take their kids out a few days early to go on holiday. this doesn't come with a clause that they too have the right to complain about the quality of their child's education and the kind of disturbances they are subjected to.

do you really think the top priority is fining otherwise responsible parents who send their children to school as civilised, polite and amenable human beings who are a pleasure to teach?

in fact parents are expected by law to KEEP sending their children into these environments even when they are being victimised, physically and emotionally bullied and intimidated and are traumatised by their experiences on threat of legal action if they don't.

now you want those parents to be criminalised and fined if they have the audacity to take their children on holiday on the grounds it disturbs education?

seriously.

Actually this us another point.
The children who really NEED to be send to school in a regular basis will not the the ones who will get the fine. Let's think about it. How often do you think a HT will gone parents for thud child skipping school(secondar there)? How often will a HT fine parents that send their children to school when they feel like it?
I know one primary where the HT has said that the only time he will grant hols out of school Hols is when a patent is in the army and one other case. No funeral no wedding. The reason is that failing to be clear enough would mean being at the receiving end of constant abuse for not letting the dcs out during term time. It is a decision based out if protection of himself (and his staff).

I do wonder though if it will make a difference with these parents.

And then you have the parents who keep their dcs off for a sniffle. Will that jaw make a difference for that too? I doubt it.

So we end up in a situation where the main causes of non attendance are ignored only to tackle the easy one. It looks good because you know the government IS doing something about school achievement whiskt spending as little money as possible. Actually they might even make money out if it.

Numpty

This is how I started and look what happened to us
Once you really start to question the value of school you are on a hiding to nowhere.
Come over to the other side, there are so many who agree with you.
A lovely term time holiday awaits.

no, not two separate issues one is being presented as an action forced to be taken because of concern over disruption to learning.

if one was genuinely bothered about disruption to learning there would be far bigger issues to tackle.

cold the point is that there are a LOT if reason why learning can be disrupted, one of them being behaviour issues. And that these create more issue to the child education that going away for a few days.
But it's ok to fine parents for a few days away whilst not addressing the massive issue of behaviour in the school.

exactly. and not addressing the parents who can't be arsed to answer the phone to you calling home about their child's behaviour for the 3rd day running and won't call back after your voicemail.

no concern over the parents who don't provide their children with the washing facilities, sleeping arrangements or wake up calls and structure to ensure they get to school on a regular basis in a fit state to learn.

minimalising of criminal behaviour in schools re: discouraging parents from involving the police when their child has been assaulted.

but go on holiday??? shocking.

really coldlight? perhaps you should get to know your safeguarding officer better because there will be pscyhopaths, sexual abusers and the like on roll at your school. they don't have special other places where the future criminals are produced. look up comprehensive.

it's rarely common knowledge but when you're a teacher who bothers to seek out why a child behaves in a certain way and to raise concerns over it you often find that 'oh don't worry, we already know, they're a psychopath/they assaulted their sister/they have a social worker because they are a risk to others/etc'.

you seem a tad naive.

The fact is they're not fining parents because a few parents (the maj of whom will have well behaved kids doing fine ) take them out for a week every year or two but because they can't stop persistent truants who often aren't doing well from truanting.

It doesn't stop the truants and does sweet fa for anybody else.

Lazy sledgehammer policy.

Well, quite frankly, now you've explained the society that comprehensive schools are a microcosm of in such lurid terms, I don't want to go on holiday either - eek, the psychopaths!

You're being, frankly, histrionic and silly. I think actually you just want to rant on about schools, and I'm sorry you haven't had good experiences in the classrooms you've taught in (if only there was some common denominator here....), but stop being so bloody ludicrous, do.

really? i'm histrionic for pointing out that comprehensive means all sectors of society?

hmm.

i've had fantastic experiences in my classroom and still do everyday. it doesn't undo the fact that i also deal with social problems that school is incapable of dealing with and which have an undeniable effect upon the education of your average, reasonably behaved and willing student.

And the children numpty speaks off won't be the families facing fines. After all a couple of days off visiting your dad in prison is an exceptional circumstance but visiting a celebrating relative and needing a long weekend is a due a fine.

Erm, yes, you are sounding increasingly unhinged. Do you think you're the only person on here who's been in a school, and we're all going to take your word as gospel?

You seem to have changed your argument to a more provocative and lurid one now, in which parents take their children on holiday to get away from all the psychopaths (isn't that word not really used in diagnoses now anyway?) just for a few precious days, and frankly I am not buying it.

I think this is another description if the reality though. Some children will be in care, will come from difficult background. Some children will have assaulted a sibling, another child. And some will have some serious SN issue that will cause massive problems in the classroom. Even at primary level (ever seen a child sending chair flying in the classroom, shouting, screaming because things aren't going their way?)

And YY to the fact that school encourage parents NOT to go to the police with bullying issues etc.