School Abscense Fine - huge amount

[PMDD]

If I am correct, if you take your child/ren out of school without prior agreement, there is an automatic fine of £60/day/child/parent?

So for us, a family with 3 children, a 2 week holiday in (say) June, would cost us £3600 - or double that if we don't pay within a certain amount of time!

Is it me to think that is totally unreasonable?!

That is a huge amount. The people who take their children out normally can't afford the hike in holiday prices, so how on earth would they afford the fine?

(Apologies - new keyboard making fingers even sausagier than usual)

But I say again, Euthah, is it equitable to make law around holidays dependent on the individual ability of a student? Or the 'conscientiousness' of parents? Surely the only fair way is to have one rule for all, and an exceptional circumstances clause to cope with the exceptions?

Teacher can I ask you for those children who fall into that 'low attainment, perhaps parents who have less opportunity to be conscientious' bracket; if you had to choose, which do you think is most important in their adult lives, and effects on society, a closely bonded family with good relationships, or just not quite as low educational attainment?

This is very worrying, because the child is deemed to have missed a half day of school if they are more than 10 minutes late.

I suppose the figures are made up by politicians who have no idea of how little money many people have (or don't care).

Oh I know you can't base policy on that and I wouldn't seek to at all.

But, I have to completely disagree with the statement,
'Lacks opportunity to be conscientious.' Lower income does not equal a lack of interest and enthusiasm for your child's education. Being feckless does. Kids having a wet week in a caravan in Skegness can and do takes books with them.

I think it's important to realise that this isn't just about holidays. If your child is late to school due to flooding, or a car accident, or the child's sibling or parent being ill, or just running a bit late, you will have to pay just the same. Maybe some schools will be charitable about what they mark down as unauthorised absence, but my daughter's school certainly won't be - unless she is attending a parent's funeral she is basically stuffed.

teacherwith2kids The only reasons that have ever been given that I've seen for this new legislation are the ideas that if you are out of school you will fail all your exams, and that when you come back you will use up teaching time catching up and it will affect everyone else.

If those two reasons do not apply, why not go and learn something else in the 'real world' - or just relax? When I was at school if you finished your work on a Friday you didn't have to do much after dinner. Why is it different to say that if you're miles ahead you can be absent for a week?

One rule for all is no fairer if it impacts differently on different families. The couple who have been in court have a letter from his employer saying he cannot have time off in school holidays - that means a law that prevents him going on holiday with his family in term time affects that family differently that it does other families. Why is that fair, but making leave dependent on the pupil meeting educational performance criteria (which is what school is all about, according to the DofE) not fair?

sorry haven't read all posts but HOW can a lone parent home school legally without being independently wealthy given you cannot claim benefits past school age? it's not about 'what i value' it's about having a roof over our heads - or ok, yes it is about what i value and i value being able to feed and house my child.

I think 'flooding' would count as an exceptional circumstance, Dromedary. Even Local Authorities aren't that sh*tty.

Oh no, you're probably right.

What's wrong with people making decisions based on the facts and their opinions, Coldlightofday? Isn't that something people do in a professional capacity in all walks of life all day everyday?

Just - lighthearted comment alert - given the observed increase in divorces / separations following some family holidays, I would go with the 'increased educational attainment' option...

As I have said repeatedly, if a family could have NO family holiday AT ALL due to poverty or due to restricted availability of a key family member, then i have much less objection to term-time absence. A family does have a right to some time together, and if a parent who works away can only have a holiday in mid-March, then that's when the family holiday needs to be.

Hopwever, in almost all families, there is an option. At some point within the 13 weeks of school holiday a year, the majority of families can spend some time together, albeit perhaps in a campsite or cheap SC accommodation somewhere not at all exotic. I suppose the question I would ask is whether a term-time foreign holiday genuinely creates a so much more closely bonded family with better relationships than a holiday-time UK-based holiday that it is worth the drop in educational attainment?

Euthah Good post.

The fines are completely ambiguous; do you get fined if you take your child out for a day or only once it gets up to a few days? Does it work per session or per day - so would 3 seperate Friday afternoons a year off (long weekends) be better or worse than Friday afternoon and all day Monday.
How can you NOT appeal a fine? That is bonkers when it's largely up to the head as to the issuing of fine.

" When I was at school if you finished your work on a Friday you didn't have to do much after dinner."

Sadly, those days are gone. Teaching on Fridays all the way upto the final bell, these days!

teacherwith2kids I'm pretending I didn't used to do maths on a Friday afternoon anyway ...

teacherwith2kids - At some point within the 13 weeks of school holiday a year, the majority of families can spend some time together,

"The majority" is not the same as "all" though, is it?

I guess you are a teacher. Imagine the not-entirely far-fetched scenario whereby Gove lets school holidays vary more, and imagine you teach for a different LEA / Academy Trust / whatever to the one that educated your 2 kids. And those two bodies have decided that it will make holidays a lot cheaper if the two of them don't overlap their holidays at all. So when you are teaching, your kids are off. And when you are off, your kids are at school. And sometimes you're teaching and they are at school.

What would you do - just accept that you could never have a family holiday while your kids were aged 5 to 16?

Euthah,

If a parent can only have a particular week off, and there is no flexiblity for that leave to be taken in ANY of the 13 weeks of school holiday, then not allowing a family holiday in that single available week is, IMO, wrong. Sop I am with you that there is no more justification for that than there is forn selection for holiday by ability.

However, that situation is VERY rare and I believe should be treated as exceptional circumsances.

Euthah,

I have smiled at your post - because a couple of years ago I had a scenario not dissimilar to that. Out of the school holidays, 10 days overlapped at Christmas (of which my usband worked 5, because he had had to take off so much time elsewhere to look after the children). And 4 weeks out of the summer holiday. All others - all 3 half terms, both weeks of Easter, and 2 weeks of the summer holiday - were different for my children and I, because I worked in a different LEA. So we took our week of holiday in 1 of the 4 weeks in the summer, and my husband worekd the other 3....

And if there was no overlap at all, in any year, teacherwith2kids?

But this is all so selfish isn't it? I would love to take my children out in term time to go on holiday as I can't afford to take them away during the holidays very easily, but... I can totally see that for the teacher and the other pupils in the class it would be incredibly disruptive. If a quarter of the class (7 or 8 pupils) did that at various points during the year then the teacher/TA would waste a lot of time catching that child up to the detriment of the other children. Also where would the line be drawn? Would it be a case of a week at the end of the summer term to begin with and then maybe a couple of days either side of the October half term or Easter.... it's a slippery slope. There are 13 weeks pa to take children on holiday. Every parent must be able to get at least 1 or 2 of those weeks off at the same time as their child, therefore they do have an opportunity to spend time together as a family. What rules are there that say that time has to be spent together abroad? Surely family time at home can be as enriching as family time abroad, which frankly with all the travel, different environment etc can be very tiring.
This self obsession people have nowadays where it is all about them and their child and everyone else can go hang is very discouraging.

Incidentally on all the people whinging about people in private education benefiting from the longer school holidays - only if they don't work and have to pay extra for camps etc to cover the excessive amount of holiday, plus they may well save on holiday costs, but they pay £12k pa plus per child for the privilege, which probably more than offsets the benefit.

Madasabox so you're with me then, in saying that if the child is ahead of the majority of the class there should be no problem in going out during term time as there will be no catching-up to be done on their return?

Hmm. Would schools open between Christmas and New year? Possibly not, even for Gove that would be unusual. So we would simply have to holiday then, with maybe a long weekend or two for bank holidays e.g. the 4 days over Easter or in late August.

I am pondering the number of households, with children of school age, in which both parents have absolutely inflexible holidays which neither can book in advance to accommodate holiday needs. Even in 24 hour, 365 day environments there are comnmonly arrangements that limit the impact on parents around key holiday times... What would you say was the proportion of families in which there is no opportunity at all for both parents to have time off at Christmas, Easter, at any point in the summer or for any of the half terms? I can't put a figure to it, but I would susopect that it is not a vast number?

It's interesting that people who are privately educated (and thus had longer holidays) do not as a rule seem to lack for qualifications or achievement in later life.

And yet the government says that the less time you spend in school the more likely you are to fail all your exams and have to live under a bridge with rats for company.

How can this be?

SO it's terrible to say that holidays aren't an inalienable right and you might have to go on the kind you can afford or not at all... Except if your child isn't doing very well at school, in which case he or she doesn't deserve a holiday?

Because private schools generally have longer days, and because Gove likes them, I would think.