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School Abscense Fine - huge amount

955 replies

PMDD · 16/01/2014 08:08

If I am correct, if you take your child/ren out of school without prior agreement, there is an automatic fine of £60/day/child/parent?

So for us, a family with 3 children, a 2 week holiday in (say) June, would cost us £3600 - or double that if we don't pay within a certain amount of time!

Is it me to think that is totally unreasonable?!

That is a huge amount. The people who take their children out normally can't afford the hike in holiday prices, so how on earth would they afford the fine?

OP posts:
LadyInDisguise · 16/01/2014 16:28

I would be much happier with a system that tells exactly what us ok and not ok to do than leaving at the discretion if the HT.
Atm there is too much variable from one school tithe next that the system can be deemed fair.

At my dcs school they have agreed for my dcs to be awY out of school for a day. Mainly I think because they both gave 100%attendance so far.
But that is rarely talked about. That if your child ism ever I'll then it is ok to take them out for one day whereas if they had been loosing quite a few days then it's not.
I have yet to see to the limit when school can say yes it's ok compare to No it's not.
The ack of transparency us Confused and Hmm

Euthah · 16/01/2014 16:29

Clearly the policy is flawed because it leads to illogical decisions.

Headteachers do still have discretion to grant term-time leave.

The Education Act still says that children must be educated in full time school "or otherwise" - this is not defined, so my interpretation is that if the child is always learning there is no legal reason they have to go to school - hence flexi schooling is legal. Nowhere does it say that flexi-schooling has to be agreed with anyone beforehand.

A few posters have mentioned that it's disruptive to the rest of the class when pupils return because they will take up the teachers time in catching up - but there will be some students for whom this is not the case because they are ahead of their peers. Should those pupils be allowed out?

sofuckedup · 16/01/2014 16:29

no one said school was the enemy

MarmaladeBatkins · 16/01/2014 16:34

I'm Confused that DS's teacher has had today off to go to some choir competition... Hmm

mummymeister · 16/01/2014 16:39

sof the school isn't the enemy but this will start to cause problems. imagine 2 kids in different schools. you apply for leave and one head grants the other doesn't. what then? Mr gove is making the head the enemy because he is saying in the law it is solely up to them. He has made a stupid law that he is now expecting someone else to enforce and take the crap for. hardly fair. my children aren't educated free of charge. the state aren't doing me a favour by doing it. I pay for it through my taxes and am a net tax payer. don't I then have a right to expect it to be fair? Its a partnership or at least it always used to be. why should I play a full part in the life of the school through the PTA when the school refuses my kids leave? i feel embittered by it. I have no problem with laws that aren't manifestly stupid. huge numbers of parents have no idea about this. it is just starting to be raised.

NumptyNameChange · 16/01/2014 16:43

flogginmolly - i am a secondary teacher and the last i knew parents were still able to withdraw their children from sats. i cannot actually believe that it would be legal now for a school expressly ignore the instructions of parents and force them to sit them against the parents expressed written wishes.

if it is i'm even more convinced the world has gone mad.

UriGeller · 16/01/2014 16:44

Roundabout £500 a few years ago for ds1 to visit France including Eurodisney when he was 15.

We have a place in France. He was translating for the teachers!

LadyInDisguise · 16/01/2014 16:44

I also suspect that school with a not too bad but could've better attendance level will be stricter than the ones where attendance levels are ok.
And that the ones aiming for outstanding with OFSTRF will be harsher as they would have to explain why so many days out are allowed under exceptional circumstances.

NumptyNameChange · 16/01/2014 16:44

who said the school was the enemy? schools don't write laws and legislation as far as i'm aware. might be more of that god complex going on.

LadyInDisguise · 16/01/2014 16:47

Euthat does it mean that in essence I could plum out my dcs from school for 2 weeks on the ground they are going to be taught in a different way, at home, and my family home so it's not an absence anymore but education out if school and flexi schooling?
Would that also mean they would keep their place at that school?

Gossipmonster · 16/01/2014 16:50

Unlikely the LA actually will if your DC usually have good attendance - they can't afford to!

sofuckedup · 16/01/2014 16:51

I just take mine out, always have always will, I more than anyone understand the impact of government cut backs and how little this ruling is because they care about children.

Where are the sure start centres, etc, gone, where are the social workers and play workers, gone, I will never blame the head, in fact I feel sorry for him, he is a lovely man with his hands effectively tied, but nor will I pander to this ridiculous criminalisation of the masses, when the current government in increasing pressure on exactly the sorts of families who need help and support the most.

Our local EWO, who I personally contact for advice, when my DC was school refusing (traumatised) actually suggested I got in the car and pretended I was leaving them home alone.

Where was the support DC needed, nowhere, there was and is no help so I will parent my child in the way I see best and not some ridiculous bureaucratic pen pusher who has never met them.

But even before this I believed that special magical time that comes from a holiday and suspension of day to day living as a family, far outweighs any educational benefit small children get from 10 days in school.

They are children, babies really at 3 - when attendance starts to be monitored. The most important person to them should be their mother and father.

Time will come when they have to live their lives by a rigid set of rules, but not when they are children who deserve a childhood.

I am actually removing mine from school for the summer term so we can home ed without them being the schools responsibility - I think they will learn more rampaging through the woods, the fields and the beaches, splashing in rock pools and having the time of their lives then they will in an over filled classroom.

That said my preferred option would be flexi schooling - this was a legal option, but the government have effectively removed this flexibility from a head by forcing them to change codes and have it affect their attendance figures.

NumptyNameChange · 16/01/2014 16:52

it doesn't mean the school wouldn't withdraw their place or fine you ladyindisguise but it does mean that their doing so is on very shaky ground legally. sending children to school is not compulsory in law. but if they are going ahead with fining adults for going on holiday i daresay they have long lost respect for what is actually legally sound.

tiggytape · 16/01/2014 16:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Coldlightofday · 16/01/2014 16:57

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motheroftwoboys · 16/01/2014 17:02

Apologies if this has been mentioned - long thread - but those of us who work in schools can't take term-time holidays either so we have to pay the inflated costs just the same. What would happen if teachers were all allowed to take term-time holidays?

Coldlightofday · 16/01/2014 17:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NumptyNameChange · 16/01/2014 17:09

i found what you said offensive. it didn't make me resentful and angry. gosh all this foisting emotions on people.

you made assumptions and felt able to talk to me as if i was a special case or something and my son was in some way at risk of needing your special attention. that's why i would choose not to talk to the school unless it was essential to do so.

mummymeister · 16/01/2014 17:09

motheroftwo - and those of us who work in other industries like mine cannot take time off in school holidays ever. so what would you suggest. people in my job shouldn't have kids. or perhaps my family should just go on holiday in school holidays without me. its not about cost for goodness sake. its about the same thing you are under. you cant take holidays in term time, I cant take holidays in school holidays. I used to be able to do it with negotiation now I cant.

NumptyNameChange · 16/01/2014 17:11

i need to find out the actual legal facts about sats. i cannot believe that a school can make the child do things that they have written to the school to tell them they don't want done. parents can withdraw from rs, sex education and all sorts and have the legal right to do so yet you're telling me a school can literally force examinations against a parents consent? i don't buy it. i think it's enough way of making parents believe they have no power when in reality they do have the power of that decision.

NumptyNameChange · 16/01/2014 17:12

enough? i meant another sorry. wiped up from hauling beds upstairs on my day off

mummymeister · 16/01/2014 17:13

Numpty - don't make the mistake of thinking you have the power when it comes to your kids any more. you have all the responsibility but none of the power. its been subtly changing for years. this is just another brick in the wall.

NumptyNameChange · 16/01/2014 17:16

what is that poster actually saying though mummy? that she'd tie a resisting 7yo to their desk and force them to do their sats against their will? Grin ridiculous delusions.

NumptyNameChange · 16/01/2014 17:17

there are kids assaulting other children, kids swearing at teachers, disrupting their classmates day in day out and exposing them to awful behaviour and language but the concern is those naughty parents who want to go on holiday or not comply with sats?! hm'ok.

mummymeister · 16/01/2014 17:17

no numpty that they would fine you for not sending your child into school and making them do sats because sats as we all know are the most important things in the school calendar and aren't just a paper exercise where year 6 kids spend the first 2 terms being taught to a test and not learning anything else of any use.