School Abscense Fine - huge amount

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If I am correct, if you take your child/ren out of school without prior agreement, there is an automatic fine of £60/day/child/parent?

So for us, a family with 3 children, a 2 week holiday in (say) June, would cost us £3600 - or double that if we don't pay within a certain amount of time!

Is it me to think that is totally unreasonable?!

That is a huge amount. The people who take their children out normally can't afford the hike in holiday prices, so how on earth would they afford the fine?

I am a parent who always arranges things around school hours and never allow my DC time off unless they are practically dying. I do my best to support the school in the education of my children. The value I place on education is extremely high, as I am someone who has benefitted from it enormously myself.

I think this blanket policy is bonkers.

The people it is aimed at - the families who abuse term-time holidays, allow their children to truant, who allow their children time off whenever they say they just feel a bit tired - will just ignore this. They will continue to call up and say that the child is sick and because the onus is on the prosecution to prove that the family were on holiday, rather than the family to prove that they weren't, very little will be done about it (especially if the holiday is taken during the last two weeks of the final term and there is an eight-week gap between absence and questioning when the parents can simply claim the child was confused about the dates...

The well-off with a sense of entitlement will simply factor in the cost of fines.

The poor will simply have to stop going on holiday.

IMO the education of a child of average or above intelligence, with parents who value education and work closely with the school, will not suffer because of a week or two's absence once every couple of years or so. A child with learning difficulties might, but I'd hazard a guess that the family would not want to disrupt the education unnecessarily in those circumstances anyway. Taking such a child out during term time probably would be because of exceptional circumstances or because the benefits outweigh the lost education. And not all educational experiences are academic ones taught in a classroom. That point seems to be sadly lost on the likes of Gove.

I think the right to family life is something that this rule will fall foul of eventually. A holiday that could be taken at any other time of the year does not fall under that right IMO. However, in cases where a parent can only take leave during term time, or for family events where contact can be difficult, costly but precious, I think denying families the right to decide for their own children that this is more important sets a very dangerous precedent.

But the serial offenders at whom this is aimed will be largely unaffected. Bonkers.

Numpty - I clearly offended you. I am sorry that is the case.

Opinions are divided on taking children out of school in term time and the right of schools to fine parents for this - surely this means that there is a case for more than one view? Some may agree with both fines and strict adherence to term time others may be less rigid. Not a wall between haves and have nots, naive sheep and rugged individualists.

I don't seek to damage any credibility of the individuals posting on this thread - by making statements that disagree with other statements a counter argument is constructed - nothing personal. Questioning of motives is natural - I am not sure fines are the answer or that holidays in term time is a big problem -and I don't think the issue is black and white.

I am not PA - unless by that you mean Pain in the Ass - cos I do have coccydynia.

We don't have this fine business in Scotland. And everything seems to be running ok

we don't have it here in Australia either & we don't seem to have too many issues. Infact apart from 2 or 3 families who have such low attendance rates anyway (fines wouldn't make a difference to attendance & parents couldn't afford to pay) because of family problems, our school has a decent attendance record.

Norude.

Re home eding the issues of work, the cost of actually doing it and the social benefits of school don't make this viable for me.

I'm after a week off for my kids that's all .I make sure they have excellent attendance and do above and beyond what is expected at home alongside working hard to support school in everything.

Not sure why wanting a week off to educate them further and do what rich families do regardless should counter the need for me to home ed.

As for hols abroad - pft - a week in a 'luxury' apartment in G Canaria with the in laws, a 3 yo, a 18m old with a sky high temp and a vomiting bug - me newly pregnant - also ill - that was my last family holiday abroad with the kids - what a joy that was But we did go in September so it was a bit cheaper.

Give me a weekend in Norfolk over that fiasco.

take em out for a week and you won't get fined anyway - only persistent non attendance for a sustained (i.e. longer than a week) period - will the fine kick in - but you won't get permission from the school anymore.

It is only the working classes who feel they are entitled to take their kids out of school for cheap holidays.

If you haven't much money the only way to afford a holiday is to go in term time because that's when it's affordable. Until these holiday companies agree to stop ripping off their customers and keep their prices consistent this kind of thing will happen. Or is it just the privileged few who can go on holiday now.

no it isn't the only way. My parents had very little money yet we always managed to holiday during holidays even if it was just a "cheap and cheerful" week somewhere.

If it is only the privileged few that go on holiday in the school holidays why are all the holiday destinations crowded with people and kids? Norfolk was busy last August - If the traffic jams were anything to go by and the long lines at the chippy/ ice cream van/ solitary toilet at beach etc.

Agree Sirzy....op talks of fortnight holiday in term time ....maybe a week away instead in the holidays....

So there's a petition asking the government to intervene to force holiday companies to limit how much they can charge during school holidays signed by the same people who are whining that they don't want to be dictated to by the government about when they can take their kids out of school.

epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/46455

I dont take mine out in term time so it doesn't apply to me. But I think this policy is madness, certainly at primary school. I was a teacher for many years and it wasn't the otherwise good attenders taking a week off in June for a family holiday that caused disruption to my teaching, it was the children who had every other mon morning off and came in late (around 10am) 3 days a week.

I want to see this tackled head on. When they get their bum off the fence and do something to properly tackle this then I may begin to support other measures.

The holiday companies aren't ripping anyone off.

Let's say that when you average out fuel, staff costs, maintenance, debt, etc., then the airline need £700/seat to fly London - Singapore. If the price is £700 all year round then flights in July/August will sell out quickly and the flights will be half-empty in May or June.

That means they lose money, go out of business and you can't go on holiday at all.

But if they charge £1000 in August and £500 in June, then the flights are full all year round and they make money and you can go on holiday.

Leisure hotels in the UK obviously need to cut their prices midweek, otherwise everyone would just book at the weekend.

It's perfectly fair.

The government are the one who set school holidays, not the holiday company.

"It is only the working classes who feel they are entitled to take their kids out of school for cheap holidays."

Any why do you think that might be?

Oh and Winter, I don't think anyone on this thread set that e-petition up, though I could be wrong...

IME children do very little in school during June anyway. Don't know if that changes for big school.

I work in the tourism specifically the camping and caravan industry, what about my family are we not entitled to a break too? I haven't had Easter, Summer, Half Term or Christmas holidays for the last five years. Its written in my contract my holidays must be taken during term time as our site is open all year round and I'm obviously needed when everyone else is off on their holidays.

We try to have City breaks during the year instead, weekends to Dublin, London etc which my son really enjoys, its very rarely he is off school anyway.

Just pointing out that work is a consideration for some peoples holiday choices, with the financial climate as it is I can't to pick and choose jobs as I could 10 or so years ago. So i have to suck it up. We do work damn hard though and my son has crappy treatment and procedures to go through so I'll be sticking to my guns we deserve a break away from it all as much as anyone else.

I think it's important to mention that the idea of going abroad as a right came about very recently during the time of budget air travel.

Those days have gone and environmentalist would argue it's not a bad thing. What's wrong with saving for a few years for a trip abroad and in the interim years have stay cation.

And as for the poster who talked about Disney as an educational school trip, I have never heard of any school trip to a theme park abroad.

I'm in Wales where there is no fine and the school seems pretty OK about children having time off for holidays in the early years as long as attendance is OK.
We have 2 weeks booked in June. DD is in reception.
I have no worries about her missing out as I view holidays as educational. It won't be 2 weeks lazing on the beach with a 2 and 5 yr old!

It will probably be the only year we do it though. Next year we won't, following year we're getting married and the year after we've saved enough to buy a caravan.

I personnaly think that the old system was too lenient but that the new one is too strict tbh!
No reason IMO to have anybody taking hols in the term time just because they can (and you know it's allowed to do so therefore we will) type if attitude.
On the other side these exceptional circumstances thing is .... Well not defined well enough that all school will give the same answer (some schools haven't introduced it yet!). It's creating big problems for me to go back to my own country and for my dcs to see their family. And I am not sure how stopping them from being fully bilingual and bicultural us a good thing in itself. Other people have mentioned before other specific circumstances (eg being able to table an NT child on hols away from their SN sibling which can only happen during term time so someone can look after said sibling. Ie giving respite to the child). But the wY the text is laid out, depending on the school the answer can easily be a NO.

So yes it was important to things back in place. Yes it was important to teach parents that school is important. But it looks like someone somewhere has decided to use a sledge hammer to crack a but tbh. And some children will be paying the price unfortunately.
Maybe the idea is that it doesn't matter because do many more will benefit ??

You did get personal with numpty though - you said that she sounded angry and upset (code for 'irrational' and you know it) and also that she lacked a sense of perspective.

We always had a week in June in a caravan with our lads when in primary school. They made a holiday diary and wrote it up every night so they were getting spellings and writing practice. Collected stuff for nature tables and we all have such fabulous memories of those happy family times. The teaching staff were fine with it and both sons are in good jobs
It is cruel to deprive a child family time that is very precious and one week only.I am so angry on your behalf .

There is a thread about this in chat. but just in case you don't go and read it my situation is that due to my job I cannot take time off in school holidays. Ever, for as long as I stay in this job. I have to work then and so do my team. I don't let them take time off in school holidays either. I therefore can only go on holiday in term time. this isn't about holidays abroad it is about a wet week in Wales in December. I am not alone lots of people due to their specific jobs or their employer not letting more than 1 person off at a time for example cant take holidays in school holiday time either. the blanket ban is bonkers. This law will make the price of holidays in school holiday weeks go up because now companies cannot sell holidays to families in May, June or Sept. so if you think that this is going to happen - dream on. This has nothing to do with how much a holiday costs me. I cannot take leave then. the discretion to grant it falls solely with head teachers - I know this Mr Gove wrote and told me so after numerous letters to him and my MP. H/T are shit scared of Ofsted because all absences have to be coded and if there are too many or too many under discretion they will ask why. anyone who thinks that this does not apply to them and their 1 day at the beginning of half term or 5 days to go for a special family holiday in Australia is in for a big surprise because it does. if you want to do something don't sign useless petitions telling holiday companies/private businesses they have to reduce their cost. lobby the govt to change this law. it criminalises parents.

What pees me off is how there is one rule for England and another for Wales and Scotland..... Id wales and Scotland don't have the fines then why should we.