School Abscense Fine - huge amount

[PMDD]

If I am correct, if you take your child/ren out of school without prior agreement, there is an automatic fine of £60/day/child/parent?

So for us, a family with 3 children, a 2 week holiday in (say) June, would cost us £3600 - or double that if we don't pay within a certain amount of time!

Is it me to think that is totally unreasonable?!

That is a huge amount. The people who take their children out normally can't afford the hike in holiday prices, so how on earth would they afford the fine?

This is what I posted on another thread:

I have thought about this for some time, and I write as a parent of primary school children but not someone who has not had the need to take children out of school for a holiday.

My first point/question is what problem is actually trying to be tackled here? Presumably that a lot of absence from school adversely affects children's education outcomes. My question would then be are most of the children of parents who might be affected by the fines the ones who really need to worry about their educational outcome?

In my experience, the families I know who wanted to take holiday during term time and were not allowed did not ask for financial reasons, but because one or more parents couldn't take holidays out of term time because of their work- and we're talking the last week of summer term. They are parents who are very supportive of their children's education, the kids are bright and engaged at school and the parents help out regularly to raise money for the school. I just mention this last point as some bright spark on R5 yesterday implied that parents who take term time holidays do not value education.

Further, private schools have longer holidays than state schools. Yet I don't see the attainment of pupils suffering too much there...Also parents there can take advantage of lower prices as they aren't going on holiday when the state sector are. Another example of one rule for us (politicians and their mates) and another rule for the hoi polloi.

Isn't the problem really persistent truancy and parents who really don't value education, and don't support their children at home? How do fines/imprisonment of parents help tackle that?

I think if you are going to fine/sanction people, it should not be completely left to the headteacher's discretion as to whether a requested absence is authorised. At the moment it seems too woolly. There should be clear guidance from the DoE on matters such as:

• How the child's attendance has been generally
• medical factors/additional needs
• Examples of when an absence could be granted, taking the above into account - for example attending a family celebration or funeral abroad, parents' work not allowing holidays during school holidays, with a letter from the employer confirming this.

A good deal could still be left to the HT's discretion but I think it needs to be clearer for both parents and HTs.

At the moment it really feels like the policy is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. And in fact is missing the nut entirely and knocking over a tree.

having been on the receiving end sadly of service provision, or rather lack of it, for victims of abuse, I can categorically state that I do not give a flying one what this government thinks about whether my children need 100% attendance

they do not provide help and support, they penalise those with a disability, they are driving the vunerable to despair

this is just a policy designed to put those on a low income in their place, we live in a capitalist society those looking to blame the holiday companies are missing the fundamental point of the way our economy works

the importance of family bonding cannot be underestimated but we have a government who wants us all like sheep not thinking for ourselves

this is a ll part of a bigger picture and those who think its simply about education are niaive in the extreme

Im just curious to know also-
The school skiing holiday that my DS would like to go on, how is that much different to the skiing holiday that i would like to take him on?
What does he do much different in the school skiing holiday than he would on my holiday?

Personally we go on our holidays during school holidays.

But I do wonder if there is an option to fine the school for the 4 learning days they lost to strikes last year!!

careful now - not bleating like a sheep apparently means you are hurt and angry and therefore without credibility i couldn't agree more that those who think this is about education are naive, it is a much bigger picture and what is being eroded is much more than whether you can go on holiday or not.

I'm also interested to know if those who are so vehemently against children going to term-time holidays were in a perpetual state of angst before the rule change? Were you lobbying MPs to get it changed or petitioning your LEA?

Or is it just now that Gove has told you that this is the way to go that you're so behind it?

Sheeples

they are in effect criminalising those who are easy targets, no children do not NEED a nice sunny holiday, but this government, thinks the children of the poor or lets face it, the average, do not need one

one day we will wake up to a world where our small chiildren are in school, from 8-5 from 3 or younger, the value of parental involvement in their childrens upbringing is being dismissed out of hand and we will have no say in whether we actually want that to happen and whether we want to be there for them

So it's ok if:

*your child is Gifted and Talented
*your child is a year ahead anyway
*you go somewhere culturally enriching
*the school organises an 'educational' trip away skiing or shopping in New York.
*florida not allowed.

Ok

I have always been against term time holidays, which is why I would never take DS out of school fro a holiday. If parents make the choice to take their children out then thats fine but I agree with it being unauthorised absence and therefore you risk the fine.

That sounds like a stupid policy. Unless a child is missing a lot of school, it should be at the parents discretion. Illness, family issues, holidays and emergencies should just be covered by a reasonable allowance of absent days. Fining parents is patronising and beauracratic.

We holiday in term time when circumstance around work etc make it the best option. Dd has no more than 2 weeks off per year including illness, her grades are fine and I prearrange that she takes homework and reading.

agreed fuckedup. it's like people have been lulled so gradually by the piper they don't see where they are.

you have to seek the permission of a low level beaurocrat to go on holiday or the full weight of the law will come down on you.

yet people are all for it.

i think there is a basic divide here of whether you think that parents are employees of the state and children are the states property or not.

at what point in our social contract did we agree to hand over authority over every single detail of our lives to the state or face sanction?

the contract should be that so long as you don't break common law (ie. laws about damage to person or property etc) and you are supporting yourself and your children you have personal freedom to control your life.

It's a fucking joke that's' what it is. So because I am in a low paid job, I will NEVER be able to have a holiday with my children?! Because that is what I am being told. I will NEVER be able to afford the ridiculous prices it costs to go abroad with my child in the six weeks holiday/easter holiday so I will never get a holiday with my kids. Right. Only the rich/well off will be able to afford to have a holiday with their kids. Righty ho. Sorry but I am my child's mother, I know what is best for him, not the school. Ten days off a year to have quality time with family away will not kill them. If they are that concerned, why not compromise, and supply the parents with some work to take abroad for the children? I had a holiday every two years with my parents in school time, I passed all exams (top grades to) as did my brother. It's not about the kids at all, it's just about money grabbing.

you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/reverse-the-changes-to-school-term-time-family-holiday-rules?bucket&source=facebook-share-button&time=1389786243

like seriously this is criminalising normal, average, law abiding citizens for behaviour that does not cause damage to person, property or anything that we universally agreed is essential. how on earth is that ok with people? is that what the law and the apparatus of the state is best used for? policing parents? it's madness.

It's less unreasonable not to take your kids out of school for a 2 week holiday in termtime.

Yup.

It's all creeping towards parents having less and less autonomy over their families. We're dictated to on what we can pack into lunchboxes, when we can take them on holiday, what laces they have in their school shoes...

I know a few people that have always been against it and these tend to be the same people who send their kids to school when they are ill ( not saying that's always the case ). I think parents should have some say in weather it's ok to take their children out of school. My dd's schools have always had the choice to say 'no' to holidays based on the child attendance, one year my dsd was refused a week off because her attendance was poor ( which was fair enough as she was getting behind with her work, a extra week off would make it even harder for her to catch up ) but I think it's wrong to say 'no' to any time off. All the jobs I have worked in I have been able to chose when I took a holiday ( yes there was times the boss could say no but over all I could get the week I wanted off ) so why can't children ask for a week off?

The times we have taken a week off have often been the last week before the summer holidays or before half term, the kids don't tend to do a lot that week so they have never really missed much work.

I rather like a thread that disputing taking children out of school in term time with a title with such a simple spelling error.

Go on many term time holidays op?

Numpty hits the nail on the head anyway with that post. They are OUR children ffs! At the moment I work in retail but I worked as a carer at one point, unsociable hours, often no breaks, working my arse off for a pittance and the wages were shit (worse than the wage I am on now for shop work) so I'd never be allowed a break abroad with my kids because I couldn't afford it due to being restricted to ridiculous prices in the half terms? I suppose the old "get a better paying job" line will be trotted out or something, so depressing when people agree with this bullshit.

People need to get it out of their heads that a holiday, somewhere, every year is a right. It's not. It's a luxury.

*disputes

on phone

"People need to get it out of their heads that a holiday, somewhere, every year is a right. It's not. It's a luxury."

In your opinion.

And in my opinion, it is not about the holiday but about being told when I can and cannot spend time with my child.

Uwotm8

I took DC1 out of school for one week when he was in Reception and I do wish I hadn't. I've not done it since with either child, DC1 is now in Year 10.

I think it sends totally the wrong message to the child, that school attendance is optional and rules can be broken when convenient. It's extremely disruptive to their education and to that of the other children in their classes which are having to cope with children who've missed large chunks of the syllabus.

You can't predict what unavoidable gaps might occur in their educations, don't voluntarily make it worse.