AIBU to wonder if this is acceptable within the investment banking industry?

[NervyJenna]

Hiya,

I'm new to the forum so please excuse me if this isn't the sort of thing we can discuss here.

Long story short : I'm starting work within the investment banking sector. I should clarify that it is not a sales and front office job.

My dilemma is whether or not to be covered by the EU Working Time Directives. I don't understand all of this fully, but I've been told that employees who opt to be covered by the directives often lose out on opportunities- at least within the IB sector. Some people have also told me that employers might be biased against employees who have chosen to be covered by the directives. My employers seem really nice so I can't imagine them being biased against anyone but this has still made me a bit nervous. :(

If anyone who works within investment banking or a related field could you please tell me if I am being unreasonable to worry about this?

Could you also advise me regarding whether or not to be covered and what would be the pros and cons of either option?

Thanks to all in advance!

I work in the public sector and I'm pretty sure I was told to tick that box...

My brother works in that sector and couldn't do his job if he didn't opt out. I will say it is rare that he goes over hours but if they have deadlines they have to meet them.

hihipreplacement: Do you mean that you were asked to opt out of the directive?

The thing is, they haven't really told me to tick either box so I'm at a bit of loss regarding what is expected.

From my understanding, I can still work overtime and stay longer hours to meet deadlines. The only difference is that I will be paid and that there will be some additional paperwork required. I'm not 100% sure though.

I was front office for some time and it was always quite clear that you were expected to opt out. Widely known that long hours and 'flexibility' were a pre requisite of the job and indeed the salary.

At the end of the day in investment banking (front office, back office, IT support, PAs) if you need to stay late to get the job done well, then you need to and you would be expected to. But presumably if you are not front office this will be the exception rather than the rule and you got a steer as to your employer's expectations at interview?

If they've given you the form then I would assume they expect you to sign it and not doing so would mark you out as someone who might be a bit 'difficult' but without knowing your actual role it's hard to say for sure. Can you ask someone in your team what is the 'done thing'

In practice I am not sure of the advantages of being protected? I think (though maybe someone who knows for sure will be along soon) that it probably only helps you if you ever got as far as tribunal or similar. If they expect longer hours at times then it would be a bit career limiting to say 'I can't stay late, ask someone who opted out of the EWTD' but if you need to rely on having fixed hours for child care etc then I guess they are aware of that already and that's fine and easily understood?

If there is a pay issue then you def need to try to establish what is the 'done thing' - because if the rest of the team is paid for overtime as a result of not opting out then obviously you want that ideally as there won't be a 'tradition' of making up the overtime with a bonus. But if everyone else relies on a year end bonus to make up for the extra hours then you would probably be financially better off overall by falling into line with that...

Husband is in that field. Unfortunately long hours are the expected norm, especially in the beginning. If you are actually getting the work you are supposed to be doing done within a normal time-frame though and the rest is just office politics, I'd suggest being firm about what time you expect to leave.

All signing it means is that you agree to work longer hours if needed. Your contract will state your hours and how overtime is dealt with pay wise and that does not change whether you sign or not. Don't forget you can do overtime without going over the directive.

Don't tick the box. I worked in banking for years and even starting out as a PA I regularly pulled 12 hrs a day. It's a given that you work the hours necessary to do the job and usually the contract is worded in that way. Clock watchers are not welcome and insisting on going home on time will not earn you friends (no matter how 'nice' you may think your employers are!). You get a bonus at year end and this compensates for the extra hours you may work. If you are being paid for overtime this sounds very unusual (but then I was front office) so I'd be content with that.

I am pretty sure that opting out is the normal thing to do in investment banking - it certainly was, when I was working there.

I've worked in legal and financial services and it was a given that employees opted out.

The 'front office' jobs are usually those with the normal, predictable hours where signing the directive won't make much difference.

Most roles, if you are not opted out, you won't be able to participate fully in the actual work. You don't get extra overtime (even if overtime is paid in your post at all) but you do have to go home after a set number of hours. Only you can judge the likely impact of such a working pattern.

If however you opted out, you can match your time at work to the demands of the task. That might mean hugely long hours. But going in to this type of banking, you'll already know that.

I work in Higher Education. I was told to opt out. I'm currently on mat leave but my average week is usually around 50/55 hours. I'm remunerated to 37.5. This is entirely standard for my grade/sector.

A lot of workplaces imply that you have to opt out. They are just doing so to cover themselves. It's actually fairly difficult to breach the total hours because of the way this is calculated. However, I think the overnight rest period - 11 hours - is the one that should concern most employers and employees. That, together with the in-work rest period and night shift rules, is one that many employers must surely fall foul of. Even if you regularly work long days sooner or later you will have a week or two where you don't and that will get you below the maximum weekly working hours. Is it just the weekly hours limit you are being asked to opt out of? I hope so!

I have worked for three major corporations including six years in IB. I would never have even considered not opting out. However, all were front office/client facing roles.
If they have not been clear what they want you to do I suggest that means you should opt out.

I worked in a 'city' type job and yes, expected that you opt out. Saying that, I didn't always do silly hours but did need to on occasion.

I work in City and I agree that opting out is the norm. You work the hours needed to get the job done but you are well paid for doing so.

I used to work in financial services and we were absolutely expected to opt out. You did not want to be seen as a clock watcher in my previous company! Having said that, my employer was pretty flexible and if you'd worked a stretch of exceedingly long hours there was generally some give and take afterwards for some extra time/shorter days. They were also flexible if you needed an hour here or an hour there for appointments.

Frankly, if it ever came down to a Tribunal situation and your employer had treated you badly by making you work with too little sleep and rest then your ticking a box years ago would have no bearing on the case - especially if it was 'expected' as a condition of the job.

Employers have a duty of care. No matter which box you tick.

I sometimes used to work upwards of 80 hours a week in commodity trading, consultancy and IB before the Directive came into force. It was normal.

Frankly, if it ever came down to a Tribunal situation and your employer had treated you badly by making you work with too little sleep and rest then your ticking a box years ago would have no bearing on the case - especially if it was 'expected' as a condition of the job.

Employers have a duty of care. No matter which box you tick.

I sometimes used to work upwards of 80 hours a week in commodity trading, consultancy and IB before the Directive came into force. It was normal.

You don't tick the box, you don't get the work....I worked in i banking for 15 years, you work long hours which is why you get paid well. It's the way it is. 7-7 was a normal working day in investment research.