Teachers and ta's. Are you expected to go into work when your own children are sick

[cassgate]

Just that really. I am currently working at my dc's school as a paid ta at lunchtime. I also volunteer a couple of days a week whilst I study for the level 3 diploma in specialist teaching and learning in schools. I am also used as supply ta cover as and when required. My problem is that my ds is currently off sick with a sickness bug. Started early hours of this morning and last episode of sickness was at 8.30 this morning. I am supposed to be working this week to cover sickness but obviously I called in this morning to say ds was ill and neither of us would be in. I am not however sure what I should do about tomorrow. Ds can't go in even if he is well as per the 48 hour rule but I am in two minds as to whether I should try and get child care so I can still go in. Normally, I would only be working lunchtime so I would go in and get someone to take ds for me for an hour but I am supply this week so not sure what is expected really. What happens at your school?. Are you expected to get child care in place to look after your sick child or is it just a given that you will be off until they are better. Any guidance appreciated.

why should employers foot the bill? - they need to remember that their employees are humans, not commodities or machines. Family is of paramount importance to most people and that's the way it should be for a functional, cohesive society. If business needs and profit take precedence over the personal all the time, that isn't good for humanity.

I cannot comprehend systems where employees are unpaid for their own sickness absence. I cannot comprehend systems where employees are unpaid for their children's absence. I cannot comprehend systems where parents are unpaid for their children's essential hospital appointments. I gave the example of chicken pox above - a highly infectious illness which virtually all children will get, requiring at least a week off where no paid childcare will be able to look after them. How many people are in a position to forfeit a week's pay? The consequences could be catastrophic for individual families and as everyone is pointing out - you CAN'T make alternative provision, it doesn't exist. So, yes, I think employers should foot the bill (obviously with policies in place to prevent people taking the piss).

As long as applicants vastly outnumber jobs, it's an employers' market.
So ideally, there would be empathy and understanding and flexibility. But usually there isn't.

OK - just to play devil's advocate if people are saying it is acceptable for parents to take time off when their children are ill as there aren't alternatives. How would you feel if I was your child's teacher and needed to be home with my ill children in this situation? I am a single parent with no family/friends backup and my CM won't (understandably) take my ill children while I work. Middle child is off for almost a fortnight with an illness, just as they are recovering the eldest goes down with it, so needs me at home for just over a week, then guess what, the youngest and I get it, so two more weeks. In total it is almost half a term that I'm away. The class, in the meantime have had a succession of supply teachers as one wasn't available fulltime for the entire time (and the school wasn't aware at the outset that it would be that long) and have learnt very little. They are Year 6! Obviously it was all unpaid leave (and luckily I had some extra financial support from the children's father) and I feel awful at letting the school down ....

Lol at langurous "Let's discuss this as a hypothetical" attitude.

I have the solution: Kids ill; shoot them.

Simps.

Sort out the current school shortage problem too.

Two birds n'all.

Or go back to the days of only employing school masters or childless spinster school mistresses, itstoohot!

My situation was many years ago, before we had a staff absence policy but the poor head took a lot of complaints, as did I when I returned to work. I resigned later that year and went into supply teaching myself!

"How would you feel if I was your child's teacher and needed to be home with my ill children in this situation?"

I don't know why you think people would have a problem with that? My older daughter has supply teachers fairly often (high school) anyway, and has had them longish term in some subjects because e.g. one teacher needed to go to her home country to sort out visa issues. If people can have time off for that, I would say having time off for ill children is reasonable. BTW I thought everyone was entitled to up to 2 weeks annual unpaid parental leave which employers cannot sack them for, doesn't this also apply to teachers/TAs? My mum is a TA but not until I had left home, so I don't know what the situation would have been for her- TAs do seem to get treated very poorly though so wouldn't surprise me if councils were dodging their responsibilities as employers :(

NewName. I really apologise. I misread your post. If that happened, and you felt you had to resign, I am really, really upset on your behalf.

I think I really do agree with Jelly. We need to be humane. It's crazy taht we are finding ourselves placed in these positions.

We aren't allowed any paid time off for children's illnesses-it is unpaid and at the discretion of the governors.

Long ago now and water under the bridge, itstoohot; the final straw when juggling family life and work. I am now back full time, risen to role of HT and recently decided to revert to classteacher and worrying about granddaughter's health! I wish all parents were as understanding, but having read the many complaints on MN about schools not giving a class continuity by using supply teachers, etc. to cover lessons and the occasional one bemoaning that the heads should make better arrangements to cover absent staff (Not possible to ensure the same supply teacher will be available. As a supply teacher I had a regular day a week at two separate schools which I couldn't drop to cover else where for a few full weeks and many supply teacher I know do the same just to guarantee some income) I expect the same level of complaints would happen now. And partly I can see their point; for me it was unavoidable and my children were my priority, but for the pupils' parents their DC were their priority and the could see their children's education suffered for half a term in a crucial year. Hence my guilt trip!

Some time off's expected but my HOD expects me to share it with DH/other child care. He's never said that but I have assumed it. One of my DCs had a serious accident at school just before Xmas and was off for 2 weeks! I only took 2 days off in taht time though, as well as missing a few meetings here and there so I could go home early and DH went to work a bit late.

as far as teachers go, the quality of the cover work and the readiness of the school to cope with this is paramount. You SHOULD have detailed schemes of work in place so that a cover teacher can come in, be told where you're at and pick up and get on. In my school the Head of Dept would oversee things to ensure classes had books, worksheets etc and the kids learning should not be adversely affected. For exam classes, colleagues cover where they can to ensure they get taught properly, even sometimes if it means they leave their lower school classes to non subject specialist colleagues. It can work, but the employers have a responsibility and interest in putting systems in place in anticipation of absence.

Over the last 4 plus terms I have had one day off with DS after a hospital admission. Two days off with DS with winter virus (inc vomiting). 6 days off when he was excluded (5 day exclusion, plus reintegration meeting all morning first day back). 1 day off when he had a mental health crisis. Lots of bits here and there for meetings. I have twice been called out of class at 5 minutes notice - once the afternoon which caused the exclusion, once when he was endangering himself (see mental health crisis above).

I am a single parent, no family close by - and all my family work. There is no way he is going to childcare if he is self-harming or suicidal, though he has come to work with me for the occasional day. I am once fortunate that he gets DLA so my unpaid parental leave rights are more flexible than the norm and twice fortunate that my HT is very understanding.

If anyone really didn't like it, well, I couldn't work. But my HT/governors/colleagues' support means I give my work as much as ever I can, so we all benefit ultimately. And as far as I know, class parents have not complained, though it could come any day of course.

TBH I wouldn't really want you in the school if you've been around a tummy bug! especially if helping out at lunchtime in case you are spreading more bugs. I have said I was ill in the past when in fact it was my DD off school. I just think employers look less favourably on mums who have to take time off to look after sick children.

My medium term plans were in place, but some children's learning needs can change drastically in a week or so, so it is not sensible to do individual lesson plans more than a week at a time.
I now teach KS1 and each lesson is adjusted in light of the lesson taught before. For example I am here preparing a completely different maths lesson on "the difference" than I expected, as this morning's lesson showed different needs than I expected. A few picked up the concept instantly, but many are totally baffled by the phrase despite close support. Tomorrow I have to take a totally different approach for that group, and extend those that have already achieved that objective. Yes, there is a core content of the curriculum but it is not like a set scheme of work that is taught and to actually move the children forwards I have to assess/evaluate what has happened and then decide what the children actually need next. Some years I will teach the next block of lessons on time for a whole week, sometimes they get it in just two lessons, some years they show me they've got o'clock and half past by Tuesday, but just aren't ready to move on to quarter past & I could spend the rest of the week on it and they wouldn't achieve the learning objective, but I know they really struggle with place value so my time is better spent adding some of that for the rest of the week's sessions.
A range of supply teachers just don't have the information to make those decisions if they are not in each day, regardless how skilled they are.

How would you feel if I was your child's teacher and needed to be home with my ill children in this situation?

No problem whatsoever so long as school put something in place to cover a known absence - ie after first day. And on first day - that there was someone ready to stand in and take over.

But then my own school manage to d this pretty well for teachers and TAs. DDs primary school did too. AFAIK her new secondary probably do as well.

My HT would nuclear if I took days off when any of my own 3 dcs were ill! So would most of the parents tbh, teachers are supposed to be superhuman apparently and sod their own lives/ families.

so long as school put something in place to cover a known absence - ie after first day. And on first day - that there was someone ready to stand in and take over.
Yes, in an ideal world that would be fine. However, I as an ex-HT know that this is not always possible. Yes, the HT stood in for the first day, but it was lucky she wasn't needed elsewhere as we couldn't have a teacher on standby every day. We had a long list of supply teachers and I remember spending many early mornings as a DeptH, phoning supply after supply to see if they were free to come in and cover a class that day. All at about 7am while getting myself ready for work and three children ready for school.

In the situation I posted about the cover was a variety of supply teachers as there was no one (or two) people that were available to cover a full week. I was only expecting one DC to keep me away, so a longer term supply wasn't booked as my expected return date kept moving as each child got sick. The last challenge is that it was before HLTAs and so we really struggled to get supply teachers (V rural, but challenging school) as they were either fully booked elsewhere or could only do, for example Tuesday and Thursday.

Thank goodness it is not my problem ensuring classes are covered anymore and we have HLTAs who can cover the first day in an emergency!

I'm a secondary school teacher and don't get paid at all if my daughter is ill and I have to be off with her. I've even had half an hour's worth of pay docked for going to collect her when she was ill (during a non-contact period, I'll add). DD was poorly loads when she started nursery and I eventually dropped from full time to part time partly because of this.

Gosh, I won't ever complain again. We get 115 hours per year to use for personal leave, which could be sick leave, carers leave, or even the water mains burst and I need to wait for a plumber leave. If we don't use it, it accumulates as well.

What do you do MidniteScribbler?
In this job I have to wait for a holiday to get a plumber in! That or pay weekend / evening call out charges. I live in dread of something bad happening to the house in these storms, as I can't have builder, roofer, etc. in until February.

Can be off but it's unpaid.