To feel sorry for these dental students?

[Mrsmorton]

In the UK, once you graduate with a BDS (Bachelor of Dental Surgery, sometimes called BChD), you have to undertake a year of training in a protected training job known as Dental Foundation 1. If you don't do this you are unable to ever become an NHS dentist.

Bearing in mind the number of dental students is set by the DoH and the number of DF1 training jobs is set by the DoH, AIBU to think that the number of DF1 places should be roughly the same as the number of students graduating from UK (i.e. funded by the tax payer) dental schools?

There will be approximately 1240 dental graduates this year (it's rare to fail after five years, usually weaker students are weeded out earlier on) and there are a shocking 970 DF1 training places which can be filled by graduates from anywhere in the EU!! Most EU countries don't require the DF1 year, you can just graduate and set up practice in the NHS without it but if you graduate in the UK, you MUST do it.

I find it amazing that so many people struggle to find an NHS dentist (although there are lots in London) and often we (the greedy dentists) get the blame for not wanting to work on the NHS yet these young and motivated almost dentists are being denied the opportunity to become an NHS dentist (or specialist) and they will be up to their necks in debt.

Is is unreasonable to think our DoH shouldn't waste almost two hundred potential NHS dentists in this way. It makes me so

Sorry, missed the fact that Wabbity is claiming to actually be a dentist. Which is kind of amazing since she can't read her own links at a very basic level. I'm glad she's not my dentist.

Not a lot of sympathy.

Its something that you can find out when you start training. There are a lot of people who do degrees and don't go on a job doing something in that exact field. Even those its a degree that seems to be very exact are you seriously telling me there are no other jobs in surrounding fields where dental training would not be an advantage or even essential to getting a job?

As for NHS dentists... I can't get one locally. I eventually found one willing to accept me miles and miles away. Its a pain. But its the NHS payment structures and not the training that makes dentists go private.

Facepalm. Who do you think devises the training AND the payment structures? Yes the DoH. These things aren't done in isolation. Hope you enjoy your commute to the dentist though!!

revenge you seem to be taking this very personally. You obviously think IABU for feeling sorry for these final years. That's fine but you're being a bit narky about it!

And redtoothbrush the system has changed beyond recognition since these final years began their training. Five years is a long time so it would have been tough to find this out at the beginning of their training.

Its whats called Life. Meh. I can think of a lot of other professions that change. You adapt to change and disappointment.

I dont see this as worse than any other profession. Sorry.

I see it as far better than most professions. Far, far better.

The narkiness comes from two people who are trying very hard to drum up an issue where there isn't one. No facts, a citation which doesn't even back them up, not a clue how the system works despite possibly being in said system. There's simply not the story here you keep claiming "is a huge problem!"

Only to you.

Revengeofkarma, I don't know how the system works because I am NOT in said system (I really am not sure what system you are referring to?)

What I have is a lot of compassion for students who have studied for 5 years and will have no job at the end of it. By the way I love the way you have stressed the OPINION of one student who is trying to stay positive. The fact is there are 200 students out there who have not got a DF1 place

Not sure about the student issue but c would agree pharmacy students are hitting problems. DBIL is newly qualified and travelling miles filling private locum positions just to work. No realistic chance of a contract in our local area and we are in a huge City.

Dentists while we luckily have one (though 5 miles away and 8wk waiting lists) trying to find an emergency dentist in south Yorkshire recently was hell. Eventually ended up with DH getting a tooth yanked out at a place with bars on the windows to protect the emergency dentists from irate patients who couldn't get in, horrific!

One ooh clinic I work at has bullet proof glass on reception nothing for clinical staff tho

Wabbity, I stressed what YOU cited. And you're still citing it wrong, which of course is what I was pointing out when I quoted from it. You really have no reading comprehension skills, do you?

There aren't 200 students who won't get jobs, the blog you cited doesn't say there are 200 students that won't get jobs and there's sweet FA other than you insisting it is true to say there are 200 students who won't get jobs.

Your constantly repeating it doesn't make it so.

It seems you're saying it's terrible that the Nhs isn't giving more jobs to dental grads that you don't think are good enough for private practice. In fact you seem to be saying that the Nhs should be giving them this further training for a few years so that they can get the experience they need to move into private practice.

If you knew the state of the NHS dentistry you would understand why dentists would want to move to the private sector. NHS dentistry is being driven into the ground.

Same situation for speech and language therapists - bonkers isn't it

The problem isn't just restricted to new graduates. When I qualified back in the good old days you could choose the town you wanted to work and walk into the job of your choice whether newly qualified or just changing jobs. You could also set up your own practice (a squat).
One of the dentists who worked for me retired last year and I already had a friend lined up to take over. Even though I didn't advertise or make it known the old dentist was leaving I had a number of dentists asking if I would consider them for the job.
NHS dentistry has a finite budget and numbers are restricted. There is only so much money to go round. The jobs section of our professional journal covers 2-3 pages, ten years ago before the budget was limited the jobs section covered 8-10 pages. It is not the case that dentists don't want to work in the NHS there are just no jobs. The Government continually blame the profession for the lack of NHS provision but in reality they are no longer committed to NHS dentistry and would rather see it fade away. It would not be in their best interests politically to actively encourage this. Far better to squeeze us out and ultimately lay the blame on our perceived
greed.
They are currently doing the same with GPs 'look how much we are paying them and how little they provide' . In reality neither the GPs or dentists make the rules, unfortunately we are unable, morally, to take industrial action, and since we are all self employed it would be financial suicide.