to think that being deaf is not a disability?

[manicinsomniac]

I have a friend who is deaf. Her child is also deaf. Her child's father is not deaf.

My friend has a rich and diverse life among the deaf community. BSL is her first language (she also lip reads and is oral) and she feels most at home when using it. She works, she goes out, she watches tv/films, she volunteers and in general has a perfectly normal life, bar the fact that 85-90% of her time is spent with other deaf people. She feels that being able to hear would make her life worse (I can't pretend to understand but I accept what she says - stuff about never being able to experience peace and total focus, not have the ability to make instant friends with others because of a huge commonality, a loss of identity as a part of a very special community etc). She loves being deaf and it is who she is.

She doesn't even use terms like 'hearing loss', she calls it 'deaf gain'.

Her child is 9 and in a deaf unit within a mainstream school. Her ex partner wants the child to have a cochlear implant (I think that's what it is - an operation that would vastly improve the child's hearing anyway) but my friend is very against it as she feels it will take the child out of the community in which they belong and not properly make them a member of any other community. I don't know what the child wants, they are confused and trying to please both parents I think.

Most people have criticised my friend saying things along the lines of, 'why wouldn't you want to cure your child's disability' 'why not make a disabled child's life easier?' etc. I think they are wrong to think in those terms.

AIBU to think that being deaf is not a disability but in fact just a different language and culture?

Gail - as I have acknowledged, I am sure the deaf community is wonderful, warm, supportive etc, etc. My god daughter is part of an amazing group of children with CI, they go on holidays, have parties together etc, etc.

But my beef is with people who say being deaf is not a disability.

I think this is an understandable but sad turning away from the hearing world because deaf people of course have faced persecution and hardship.

ALL DISABLED PEOPLE have faced this.

The problem with my disability is not so much my disability but the prejudice and unkindness I receive from the able bodied.

But that does not mean I wish to form an amputee community and chop one of my daughter's legs off.

My daughter is profoundly deaf, she uses cochlear implants.

I understand why some dont see it as a disability. I struggle to think of my daughter as disabled. But it is a difficult thing to live with. She does remarkably well and they do adapt and it gets easier but it is a disability and YABU if you refuse to acknowledge it as such because in doing so you imply anyone who struggles with it shouldnt be

I remember when she was 2 years old and all the other kids were playing, and she couldnt understand them and she just ended up sat on the outside watching them. I am not the gushy, overly emotional type. But i fucking sobbed.

Also, your friend is being v unreasonable fir the cure comments, implants are not a cure.

The existence of a deaf culture is not in question, it exists and it will remain in one way or another even with further developments in implantation technology.

The reason the OP has attracted criticism is due a posting a truly ignorant viewpoint. To say that being deaf is just a "different language and culture" is insulting to deaf people who have been disadvantaged in the workplace (62% of deaf people are in unskilled jobs), find it impossible to gain employment (deaf unemployment is 15-19%) and are treated differently because they are in a minority.

The OP's friend may not consider herself disabled, but if she is spending 85% of her time with deaf people she is lucky not to feel the loneliness and isolation that a lot of deaf people live with and on a day to day basis she isn't in a minority.

As for your response OP of There are lots of things I wouldn't choose for my child to be that are not disabilities - mainly because I feel it would affect how I am able to relate to them. I wouldn't choose for them to be non English speakers for example. If you don't speak a language you can learn, if you can't learn a language because you can't hear what someone is saying your are at a massive disadvantage and always will be.

If you were honest about it OP you would never choose for your child to be deaf, not because you couldn't relate to them, but because they would have a much harder life in the hearing world because their difference would be disabling.

they are not creating a deaf child, they are choosing to increase the chances of their child being deaf.

Sorry, I don't see the distinction there as being particularly important.

I note my google search 'deaf couple want deaf child' returned over a million hits.

Presumably quite a lot of deaf people WANT to do this, whether or not it is currently achievable.

And that is what I have an issue with.

I believe being deaf is a disability.
There's nothing wrong about being a disabled person and that point of view makes it seem like there is - like its wrong to admit it or label it.

The evidence is there. Over a million results. Its not just a 'niche' Daily Mail hysteria thing.

uterus. cervix i am not entirely sure which is which

OOPS

sorry wrong thread

Spero, my comment was more about the case in question rather than your own views and personal experience. (I have reread this several times and hope it comes across as honest rather than snippy!! Very tired, sorry, but it's not meant aggressively!)

DrNick, I hope you're not a Gynaecologist?!

Back to the thread!

I am not an apologist for able bodied cruelty and racism. That would be quite bizarre given my life experiences.

But it is my life experience as a disabled person which makes me very unhappy at the notion that any parent would wish a disability upon their child.

that takes away a child's choice.

I believe it is wrong. And nothing that is said about the warmth and inclusivity of the deaf community is going to change my mind about that I am afraid.

Gah! I meant to type 'prejudice' and I typed 'racism'. But hopefully you get my drift.

Gail, I don't think you are being aggressive.

Interesting article here.

jmg.bmj.com/content/39/6/449.full

27% of respondents among the Deaf group indicated a preference for Deaf children.

3% of participants from the Deaf cultural group indicated that they would consider an abortion [of a hearing fetus]

MrsDeVere You are welcome to check the Bill to confirm that it does forbid choosing a deaf embryo purposely. If it does then you are welcome to ask the MPs who wrote it and voted for it why they included that rule.

It's possible they included it merely to annoy you and not for the more obvious reason.

A few comments have mentioned that it should be the child's decision as to whether she receives a CI. Unfortunately, by the time the OP's friend's child is allowed to make this decision, the benefit to her is likely to be very small. CIs generally are most effective when the child is implanted at a young age and neural pathways are more elastic. If the OP's friend's dd has not had her auditory nerve stimulated at all by hearing sound, the likelihood of a CI being successful as she gets older is diminished.

We chose CI for our child, but I can appreciate deaf families who are very much a part of the deaf community/culture electing not to have a CI for their child, or not wanting a hearing child even; they want a child who is like them, just like we wanted a child who is like us. I can understand a deaf couple wanting a deaf child - I don't have an issue with that - but for me, my child and our family, I still regard deafness as a disability.

CinnamonPorridge, your post made me want to cry. This is the sort of thing that outrages me - that educational support for deaf children is so patchy. That your friend's son should be bright but unable to access a proper education and struggle without support is just wrong. Has she sought help from the NDCS to get a statement for her son?

I have to say, when I saw disabled athletes during the Paralympics who were deaf, and that was their only disability, I was a bit

I think this is an understandable but sad turning away from the hearing world because deaf people of course have faced persecution and hardship

How does declining a CI equate to turning away from the hearing world? You do know that there are deaf people for whom hearing aids/CIs do not work? For whom all the speech therapy in the world does not work? For whom lip reading (usually 30% intelligible, the rest guess work) is exhausting, confusing and just doesn't work?

Deaf people are not turning away from the hearing community by declining CIs, using sign language. Some d/Deaf people could benefit (audiologically) from CI implantation but the vast majority of hearing people could learn to sign! Very few Deaf people are "anti hearing" - many marry hearing people and the majority of children born to Deaf people are hearing. There is no need for the world of Deaf people to be small, backward, narrow or any of the other pejorative terms used to describe Deaf Culture in this thread.

You might just as well argue that hearing people are limiting, oppressing and marginalising Deaf people by refusing to learn to sign.

GOSH generally won't look to implant after age 5, Nottingham (think it's queens) hospital the "cut off" is age 7. I have a close friend who's child was implanted in Nottingham because they wanted some additional time to decide, even though they live in London....

LaGuardia Deaf athletes who don't have additional disabilities can't compete in the Paralympics.

Okay, this is what I was vaguely remembering. I didn't say it as certainly true because I wasn't sure.

Embryo selection clause triggers controversy in deaf community

I still don't know if it was just one couple or many.

Both myself and partner are deaf from birth and use adequate speech neither of us were taught bsl and on the face of it do very well. In some ways we are too deaf for hearing people and too hearing for deaf people there is a divide. but its a disability not a cult ure simpily because it does hinder us in lots of different ways but as adults becomes a little easier to deal with iyswim. and my son was born hearing and both of us were relived even though had he had been deaf we would have taught him to be proud. we just didn't want him to have to struggle like we did. although having two deaf parents will come with its own challenges. one I have already noticed he is louder than other babies and beleive me through instint and thumping on the wall he knows how to get our attention!