to be desperately worried about my mums current hospital inpatient care

[2014meh]

Long story short- she was admitted for an orthopaedic operation and has various underlying health conditions (she's 75).

Op went well according to surgeon but she has hardly eaten since she has been back on the ward, and has experienced chest pains, ECG shows nothing apparently and is not really getting mobile 4 days post -op as experiencing shortness of breath when the physio staff try to get her walking with a frame. She's now bed bound and being supplied with oxygen.

I was worried about her post-op care and recovery before she went in, I'm now building up to frantic. There's no sense of urgency amongst the nursing/support staff on the ward. Everything is "Oh yes we must do a/b or get person x or y to look at that/see you" but this then either takes 48 hours or doesn't happen at all. If this was their mother in hospital I'm pretty sure stuff would be taken care of pronto. My sister is terrified of putting her hand up and saying anything and says not to push anything with the ward staff.

It's Friday now, so I'm looking into the abyss of hospital inpatient care at a weekend with the dearth of testing/scanning/senior medical staff around that this entails.

They're going to f**cking send her out in a wheelchair or a box aren't they ? She ain't gonna walk out by herself as they said she might.

What can I do to help stop this tragedy in progress and maximise her chances of a recovery ?

Another medical person who thought pulmonary embolus when I read the OP this is a medical emergency and needs dealing with now.

Do not let them fob you off.

It is not just one family's experience of one hospital. Not by a very long way.

Absolutely agree.

Aggrieved isn't the word I would use.

Traumatised, grief stricken, distraught, horrified, devastated maybe.

Really am leaving now, before I get more upset.

No advice, as sadly, my dad is in a similar position. Had a severe bacterial infection and his organs were starting to fail, he is vastly improved but has been bed bound since before Xmas, the nurses don't know what's going on, and it's a continuous battle to get information from a doctor, over the weekend there are only junior doctors on ward, who seem quite clueless. I don't understand why nurses can't give out basic medical information, blood test results etc? it makes no sense whatsoever

I'm not going to say everything in the NHS is perfect by any means but I'm also bowing out now ,the OP has had some good advice and this is just going to degenerate into an NHS bashing . There are lots of us that work in the NHS ,even at weekends ,who try very hard to care for people properly and get them the appropriate care and treatment .

I feel I have to re-iterate that you need to get a doctor to take your concerns seriously. You can speak to the ward staff all you like, but they will not countermand a doctor's recommendations.

I don't understand why nurses can't give out basic medical information, blood test results etc? it makes no sense whatsoever

I understand why they can't, as they then have to analyse that information and answer any questions. Which they can't take responsibility for, its the doctor that needs to do that. It does seem to be a case of those who shout loudest are more likely to get answers though. My dad is in the same position btw devil, although we did get some answers today, just by luck as we were there when the consultants were doing the ward rounds.

There are lots of us that work in the NHS ,even at weekends ,who try very hard to care for people properly and get them the appropriate care and treatment

I wouldn't deny that for a moment. Certainly the nurses on my dads ward work very hard, and I am extremely grateful to them.

You need to talk to the nurse in charge or corner the nurse looking after her. Or be there in the morning at ward round and quiz the doctors.

My Grandad is in hospital and luckily is being cared for very well but as a nurse myself I had concerns they were just going to send him home without being able to walk! However this is what care packages and physio are for, which has to be sorted out whilst still in hospital.

Weekend care is totally different, not much gets done at the weekend unfortunately unless its an emergency. Us nurses are there, but no one else it seems! We get frustrated with it too.

OP - have you spoken to a doctor yet? I'm not a medic but my first thought was also PE. If you haven't spoken to a doctor yet, you will now need to be very stroppy and forceful as it's the w/e. Refuse to leave until a doctor is called, do not just speak to a nurse. I find sitting down and saying I'm not moving is very effective - also helps if you have a thermos and food with you to show you are serious - and something to read - like Good Medical Practice and a copy of the hospitals complaints procedure.

I think that care in hospitals at weekends is at best adequate. I have had 2 recent experiences with family members at 2 different hospitals - one in Wales and one in England. I do not have cause to blame any individual members of staff for any of the inadequacies - they are all doing their best in extremely difficult circumstances. However, the statistics are there for all to see - you are more likely to die if you are admitted to hospital or operated on at a weekend.

I waited 7 1/2 hrs for someone to come and see my DD when she had an allergic reaction to a drug they had put her on. I waited 6 hrs for someone to re-site a canula so she could be given medication. There were gaps in her treatment because of this, meaning she didn't recover properly from her illness as she should have - it cost the NHS more money in the long run.

The care at weekends is different from that during the week. Everybody who works in an acute hospital would agree with that I think. It is not necessarily that there is an absence of 'care' but that certain services become much harder to access at that time. I see no NHS bashing here - and I work in the NHS too. I see frightened, tired, anxious people who need support. Nobody is bashing the nurses or the service but rather advising persistence, politeness and listening - which is what's needed all round.

YANBU. Despite the best efforts of many people, this is sadly typical of the current NHS and there's definitely not enough being done about it.

I'm with those saying make urgent appeal to have her checked for a clot. Don't take no for an answer and persist persist persist... Ring her GP if necessary and ask for their intervention but make it clear that you are on the ball by having a pen and paper in hand and making it very clear that you are taking the name and response of all you ask recording date and time...

I am only alive today because my mother did this for me (mine was post op internal bleed). We are firm supporters of nhs understand the pressures of medical profession and have over 50 years of service in nursing over 3 generations.

Good luck . She will be well.

Be as persistent as you can. Take notes of who you are speaking to.

Bourdic speaks sense. This could be extremely serious. My friend's dad died after being in a similar situation (op went fine, after care was utterly unforgivably bad). Don't allow this to just go by.

There have been stories in the news recently about making hospitals properly 24-hours due to the number of weekend deaths. It is naive for anyone here to suggest otherwise.

I agree with the need to be very, very persistent.

My father is only alive today because my mother more or less lived at the hospital for months when he had septicemia a decade or so ago, and was assertive to the point of taking things into her own hands when he wasn't getting the care he needed.

Care in ICU was excellent, but as soon as he was moved to a regular ward he started to deteriorate increasingly rapidly over two or three days. When no one on the new ward would listen to her when she repeatedly warned them that his breathing was getting worse by the hour, she went back to ICU, grabbed a doctor that she recognised (he'd been in ICU for weeks so she knew them all) and dragged her back to the new ward, where the doctor immediately got his trach tube reinserted, because his oxygen levels were dangerously low, and onto intravenous antibiotics because of a chest infection.

And don't talk to me about the way he was fed, or rather starved...

When I was a junior doctor 27 years ago we worked 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 on call. We were exhausted but gradually the junior doctors hours have been cut for safety sake so they only work on average up to 60 hours a week instead of the 120 I did.
The reduction in hours has not been accompanied by an increase in doctors to cover the wards so one junior doctor covers many wards and patients and knows little about them
I used to cover 90 beds at a weekend plus acute admissions, around 16 q day. I knew my 30 patients inside out and the other 2 doctors on the other wards knew theirs so would leave notes for me.

We had charge nurses who knew everybody, nurses who cared for about 6 patients and auxiliary nurses who helped.

All medical staff want to help everyone but we are pulled in every direction and the poor nurses don't know whether they are coming or going.

We don't need any initiatives to improve care we just need the staff to so the job.

I hope your mum is getting some attention.

London. I agree we need 24 hour hospitals but the money just isn't there. You would need to triple the staff to get it to work with decent levels and that's not just the doctors it's the nurses, the labs, the X-rays the admin staff. Prohibitively expensive.
In GP land it is the same. Today I was left alone doing all the prescriptions because 2 of my partners were out doing visits and the other 2 in meetings which everyone seems to want us to have and minute for no one to read the minutes.
The NHS in an emergency is fabulous and certainly where I am the cancer care is great but general medical care is awful.
I think we let the public down so badly.
Anyway I will stop hijacking the OPs thread.

It is not just one family's experience of one hospital. Not by a very long way.

Absolutely agree.

Me too. I'm sorry if it seems like nhs bashing, but this happens, too much. Not a one off experience. Not people scare mongering. People being scared yes, worried yes... Imagine what happens if someone has no one to fight for them. Why is it ok that unless you have someone medically informed and willing to persuade, argue and persist, you are neglected, uncared for, starved and left to die/ get well as fate declares! How have we got to this being the standard level of care? Why do we have to shut up and put up because criticising the nhs is sacrilege ?

I went into hospital in september. I came out scared and horrified. And I'm afraid, determined to do anyrhing to avoid being forced to rely on the 'care' I saw and received, especially the way the elderly are treated. I cannot go through the terror and pain of being left to die under the 'care' of people whose job it is to save you. I know some people are very good, but it's a lottery with too few good staff to balance it out.

Musical – listen, I agree. I understand and I deeply sympathise with the plight of medics who are overworked and who are not appreciated (and who are lumped in with the mediocre and the apathetic).

I created a big stink about my dad's own poor care once I could see that simply being polite was going nowhere (I work in the media) and it had results. I am a persistent, hard-nosed hack when I want to be. I also sang the praises of my midwife to the chief exec years later. I am not knocking the NHS per se.

However, too many people die due to preventable things. What is the point in paying thousands for an operation only to neglect the patient and not feed them/monitor them etc? It is fucking outrageous.

OP, what is the situation now?

Imagine what happens if someone has no one to fight for them.

Yes, absolutely. I have thought this a lot recently. I think if you are an older person, who is touch and go, with no one to fight for you, then you die. I truly believe that.

Sorry for not updating sooner guys but I took to my bed early last night as the emotional toll has exhausted me, I'm no spring chicken myself !

My dad visited mum last night and we didn't want to crowd the pair of them so I didn't go.

He said that she was taken off oxygen between afternoon visiting and evening visiting (hurrah) and there was then talk of sending her home on Sunday ?!?!. WTF ? I'm not bashing the NHS in it's totality but my parents both dread that hospital and its poor reputation. It is known locally for it's high than average death rate (being investigated officially now) and for recurring MRSA and C/Diff - so people want to get out as quickly as possible before contracting a HAI in medical terminology. As a family we know of too many people who have had official apologies issued for the standard of care/outcome of their own or their deceased relative's care. I fear he may have pushed the staff into suggesting a discharge due to the fear of her getting a infection. He can't help her stand as he is 74 and seems sprightly but surely shouldn't be responsible supporting an overweight 75 year old ?

Thank you so much for all the knowledgeable suggestions and support on this thread.

Today I'm ringing the ward and asking to speak to someone when I visit this afternoon. I'll specifically asking about Leverette's points as I too am v worried about the possibility of P.E. which I believe is a risk for several months post-op particularly if patient is not fit and active. She was awake during surgery to minimise risks given her underlying health issues so I'm hoping that rules out aspiration of stomach contents as a possible factor. I will read charts etc, and ask questions and see what happens.

24-hour service my arse. My dad's feeding tube came out on a Friday night and there was nobody available to replace it until Monday morning.

24-hour service my arse. My dad's feeding tube came out on a Friday night and there was nobody available to replace it until Monday morning.

Exactly the same here.