To think it should be a criminal offence to intentionally maliciously report benefit fraud when no fraud is happening

[IneedAsockamnesty]

I'm obviously not talking about genuinely fraudulent claims just the ones where none exists and are done to cause honest people problems.

Apparently over 90% (trying to remember where i got that info from)of calls to the fraud hotline are not genuine something I can well believe given that when I worked for the dwp the vast majority of the reports we got were quite obviously malicious that resulted in findings of no fraud and many other area depts reported the same thing.

The other steps we take to combat fraud such as data matching are really very effective, investigating these claims costs money both for the dwp/hmrc and for the claimant and can be very upsetting.

Obviously reports should still be semi anonymously made just only anon with regards to the claimant getting the info.

Personally I couldn't do that to someone even if I had fallen out with them but lots of people do.

Woowoo obviously I had no idea my spell checker thinks that woohoo is something I often type

There is another thread going on at the moment (it's a coincidence) based on the info given by the op of that thread it's highly likely the person she is posting about is not doing anything wrong.

I've pointed this out on the thread, put up a link to a info page that confirms she may be doing nothing wrong yet not one person on that thread has noticed,it's full of posters getting quite irate about fraudsters

I think if the dwp thinks the reports from members of the public should stop then it should close the option to report. Because that's what criminalising making a wrong report is doing. And of course if someone knows who reported them they will be able to say "its because we fell out/I slept with her bf".

That didn't mean I think they're not morally wrong, in fact I'm wondering if you personally have evidence/witnesses to a threat to report you you should probably take it to the police. Is that blackmail?

I didn't say wrong report, I said malicious report they are different.

The type of person who reports someone because they shagged their husband or upset their sister is not going to be concerned about the cost of investigating.

Also i don't think the claimant should be told who.

It would be quite interesting if A.it would be blackmail and B.would be treated seriously.

Surely it's possible to devise a system where the details of the person reporting fraud are only known to one person in one office and not to the local office dealing with the investigation at all?

Imagine if all reports went to one office which assigned a number to the allegation and passed it to the local office as case 23123123.

At the very least it would show up if one person made multiple false reports.

There is another thing that can be done and we can do it right here on mumsnet. It would help if every time someone posted "shall I report my neighbour/family member" if everyone posted advising careful consideration and pointing out that "YES they WILL suffer even if you are wrong".

Because I've seen so many people say "well do it anyway. There's no downside". Right here is the place where you can put a stop to that myth.

I quite agree chunderella,

But your bog standard malice claimant (what the fact that they are just normal people)is not likely to ever get there hands on that info.

Organised crime bosses yes or very rich vendetta filled gun lord perhaps but aunty Mavis whose dog just happens to bark to loudly and wind up the neighbour I would doubt it

Got I love bunging that word in every where. Ignore the malice word in that it just sort of turned up

The problem is that no-one will be reporting someone who they have a perfect relationship with. Even if the reporting isn't done to get back at someone there's a risk you could be seen as malicious.

So yes this does effectively criminalise all reporting. Because who cares so much about the welfare budget that they risk their own criminal record for it? If genuine reporting wasn't intimidating the dwp wouldn't need to advertise to encourage people to come forward.

Mines.

If I knew really knew someone was no matter how I felt about them I would report.

Just the same as I would for any other serious crime. I wouldn't be risking my criminal record because I would do so openly and honestly state why and how I knew they were claiming fraudulently and I would be perfectly happy to justify to anybody why I reported.

But I would never risk reporting if I didn't know with out a doubt

To prevent details being passed onto people who shouldn't have it have a system like the police do so everybody knows who has looked at what and why if any staff members break the law lock them up.

The only people here committing or accused of committing fraud are single mothers.

I knew of a lady who by no fault of her own ended up single mum of one, really really tough time, little family help etc, absent father; was very proud and worked but lost her job unable to get another, on benefits, really made the house stunning, improved it; and for a few months got a cash in hand cleaning job, for peanuts but her car had to have lots of work on it and it was a god send to her....

some nasty horrid person reported her .

a single mother making a few measly pounds for a few weeks .

she is back in full time work again now and is more financially stable she was/is such a good person too, someone who helped me out in a really nasty tough time....and I know she was there for others, even though she had very little to give herself.

I think benefit bashing has gone insane.

Where has this 90% of referrals not being correct come from? When I was a fraud investigator about 80% of the referrals we got were correct following investigation and subsequent confession. Yes, we had some incorrect and probably malicious accusations but in all honesty they were in the minority.

And I was never a twat to anyone, I treated everybody as I would want to be treated myself. I was probably a bit soft truth be told but I'd much rather give someone the benefit of the doubt than be a cunt and make their life difficult. I saw my role as to help people to access the support they needed and even as a fraud investigator I did manage to help people. Helping women to escape from abusive partners who were using their single parent benefits to fund the bloke's alcohol/drug addictions, whilst the bloke bullied them to stay after he'd spent his own money. I know that for most people a compliance/fraud interview will be the worst thing in the world but for some it will be their escape route and where we can get them away and help.

I feel that we have all been manipulated into turning on each other. It's always easy to point the finger at the poor. Maybe we should be asking real questions like: Surely everyone should be entitled to a roof over their head. So why do so many people have to a scrap to get one? The people who need to answer that question, I.e. those in government, do a good job of making out that someone earning a few quid in hand is responsible for the country's dire financial situation.

Willbeat,

That's actual fraud unless she was earning the amount she would be allowed to keep.

Tina,

I know loads of fraud investigators who have done that,it's really great helpful behaviour I'm very certain that there are huge amounts of very greatfull previous abuse victims.

I'm trying to remember exactly where I saw the figures I know firstly it was in a few papers then a few blogs then I saw it somewhere more reliable and also with a link to the actual break down of the fraud figures, and it was linked to a petition.

Unfortunately it was silly o'clock and I cannot remember the words in the link, because it was the numbers that got my eye I was quite surprised that they get about 700 calls a day.

And I'm guessing my son was looking at something he don't want me to see (he's banned from a few gaming sites so nothing rude)as helpfully my history was gone to.

The figures were for the full year the year before last and directky related to the hot line,perhaps someone whose better with google could track them down.

No worries Sockret. I've had a google and couldn't find the reference. I can only go on my own experience really, which of course I cannot prove, but we did have an 80% positive anon referral result. It was a few years back though so things may have changed significantly since then.

And it's a long time since I worked in that area but I sincerely hope that customers in need are getting appropriate help. I can honestly say that no one gets a warm feeling from prosecuting somebody.

But helping somebody to leave an abusive relationship, help them to find themselves and their confidence again, find a job they love that enables them to provide for their DC. Oh yes, 100% job satisfaction.

I'm with you on that one.

Most of our positive referrals came from people's mothers, You could figure it out during the call because they always indicated who they were by language use.

But we had shit loads of nasty ones from people who were almost strangers and neighbours who had falling outs and ex's and it was genuine meanness with nothing that could even be mistaken for fraud.

My dd appears to be under the impression that what prompted me to go looking was a daily express article apparently she remembers me making a snide comment about comics and laughing.