to think primary school children shouldn't be parked in front of videos and ipads during class time?

[schroedingersdodo]

Ds1 will start reception this year and I've visited several of the schools nearby. This morning I went to the one considered the best in the area. Outstanding ofsted, catchment area of 200m (heard people rent nearby to get a place for first child and then move away again), yadda yadda yadda.

In the reception class quite a few children were playing with ipads on a table. The head said the school has 30 ipads and they are always being used by the teachers in class (as part of the class programme). I passed by at least two classrooms were all the children were watching videos in a big screen, one of them Rhyme Rocket from cbeebies.

Sometimes I do plonk my Dc in front of the tv or ipad, so I can do something else, but I consider this a lazy solution, that I use when I can't be bothered to think of something else and am too tired to parent properly.

AIBU to think plonking children in front of screens is not the role of the school, and that the teachers should be engaging them in activities and not relying on ipads to keep them quiet/well behaved?

I'll be honest though - I think there is an element of gadgets for the sake of gadgets in a lot of schools - things that were bought and are sorely underused... IWBs used for only the end of term DVDs and the odd powerpoint - things like that. Oh and crap IT backup for when things go wrong. An element of "oh send them to the ICT suite to design a poster" as well - without actually teaching decent skills using programs like Publisher and Powerpoint to underpin it (yes, I was the one who taught my Y2 how to do it all properly, inserting text boxes and everything from scratch), and do not get me started on all this stuff that we expect them to do without teaching them how to search for information properly, interpret it, work out if it's fact or just internet blog nonsense, and my ultimate pet hate... expecting them to do this pecking away with two bloody fingers!

Same as any subject if not taught properly. But not many primary schools would get away with such poor ICT teaching these days.
The above certainly doesn't represent my school.
(Just wish we could have afforded IPads too)

OP, are you Mrs Gove?

I don't dispute the importance of videos and ipads, I just think they have too much of that already in their lives, and the role of educators (the parents and the school) is to try and balance things

So the school should turn their back on a brilliant learning aid because children (In your opinion) do too much technology at home?

In a very deprived area, where children have no access to technology,
you are kidding right? It's the deprived families who have the last word in cutting edge technologies! (and I understand why, £ for hour it works out pretty cheap)

You really have no idea about how important ICT is within a classroom now. Not only is it valuable, it's a vital compulsory part of the curriculum. Just like in our daily lives, technology is integrated in to subjects now. For example, we don't just have a history lesson, we have history/english/arts/technology all rolled in to one. Seeing a couple of minutes of a classroom using technology and assuming that is all they do is really quite insulting to educators.

Also, using popular culture to introduce or develop attention in a subject is hardly a new concept. Did you never see Donald Duck in Mathmagic Land when you were growing up? Many children's programs now are actually well researched and grounded in developmental and educational theories.

I agree with you entirely schroedingersdodo and I am a teacher myself. Yes, Ipads and other screens can be used but I totally agree that most kids have far too much of that in their lives already (some of my class sound as if they are permanently plugged into a screen when they're not at school). There are so many other things young children ought to be doing. I would've thought the same as you on visiting that school.

I remember talking to one of my children teacher. A lovely and competent woman who had lots of experience and was (still is) doing a fantastic job in R/Y1.
Se explained to me that her job is getting harder and harder because children are so use to quick reward with computer games etc... that they struggle with the slower pace of learning to read/count She said that nowadays to keep children interested she has to just through a lot of hoops, much more than before and has to make a point of making the class extremely lively, 'jumping up ad down' as she said.

And maybe this is the point. children now are so used to these technologies/games that teaching has to adapt to it. But it made e wonder at what cost.
What sort of job will be ever so interesting that you won't get these low times when you work and work wo any immediate reward? What sort of studies can you do when you do' have just to put your head down, learn, make the effort before you can see the result of all your sweating?
This is an essential skill to learn at school. One that dc2 has learnt because it happened that he struggled A LOT in Y1 so we had to do a lo of 'boring' work at home. One that dc1 hasn't learnt because he never had to.

This is why just as much I am not sure that it would be good to remove all technology, I am not sure it should be used so liberally in primary school either. All the research skills (like search on the internet) can be taught in secondary school when they will be able to look at websites with a more critical look and god knows how much 'wrong information is on the Net). Making a poster, why not? Having a small interlude with a vide, internet etc... at the start of each lesson? WHY???
Having an ipad? What are the children using it for? Learning the basics, as funny end of a session, as a support for the ones who are struggling, to stretch the others? It certainly depends but I am struggling to see why some people see technology as something so important. It's JUST a tool amongst lot of others. It would b a shame to forget about all those.

FWIW, the best teachers my children have had weren't the ones who were using technology a lot. They were the ones who were able to differentiate work, who had fantastic teaching methods ie they had a god contact with the children, knew them individual and were able to pass the message in a clear and approachable way.

BTW can someone direct me to the research that says that it's not an issue for children to spend so much time in front a screen at school but it is when they are at home?
Because I am getting puzzled as to what the research says in both cases tbh.

Technology can be fantastic at supporting learning and development. It doesn't have to replace things it is simply another tool avaiable to help things.

Teachers will plan the use of technology in the same way they do any other resource in order to help the children as best as possible.

Lady - I am not at my computer at the moment so can't access the research but most of the research suggests rather than it being about the time itself it is more to do with what they children are doing and what other activities they are doing. Schools generally speaking are better at keeping the time spent on technology down whereas parents sometimes use it for longer periods of time.

It's quite a complex area and because it's Stil a new area not as much is known about the long term impact (especially for young children) but the research seems to be suggesting overall that quality not quantity is important really and that as long as it's balanced with other activities it will be beneficial.

Lydia Plowman has done a lot of research into pre-school aged children using technology.

In Ye Olden Days when we had books to learn from and paper to write on, then we went home and did colouring in or read a book did anyone say "oh no, these children have too many pages in their lives?"

No? Didn't think so.

This is the modern world and this is what children will be using when they grow up. Paper will become obsolete (and save what remaining forests we have).

They need to be using them now in their learning.

We use iPads in school. They are a tremendous learning tool. So are videos They aren't stuck in front if them to keep them quiet. (In fact with iPads it cam be quite stressful for the teacher to manage)

My lo is five and a boy. He is a techy and always has been. There are some fantastic challenging apps on the I pad Sesame Street and jolly phonics. He is in front of his peers and I put that down to the I pad. Education has changed and teachers have become facilitators of knowledge. Librarians are knowledge managers where they assist people to find their own knowledge. I love the fact that he'll ask me a question and we can go look it up together immediately with no faff.

I think it's interesting that some of the more academic schools keep the technology aspect fairly low key for a while. Children are taught the basics first and it's only when they have the 3 Rs fully in their grasp the IT side comes into play. Cheltenham Ladies, for example I believe, don't allow computers to be used for even for usual Prep until the girls are in Y8 I believe. They need to know the basics, how to set out a letter, composition etc first.

we don't just have a history lesson, we have history/english/arts/technology all rolled in to one.

Um, why is that a good thing?

cingo because holistic cross-curricular learning is more powerful, useful and interesting for children than compartmentalised stand alone lessons.

Learning is not about just acquiring facts, it is about being curious, inquisitive, interested, and willing to put effort in to learn new skills that you didn't know before.

Linking learning in lots of areas means a higher chance of all the children getting something useful out of the lesson no matter what their learning styles are.

For example, if a class is learning about the fire of london, they can also learn about mixing different media to create an oil pastel and collage piece of art based around the fire, and research archived photos of that fire of London on the Internet, and then write a first person story from the point of view of someone alive during that era who survived the Fire of London, and thus get far more immersed in the topic of the Fire of London than they would from a stand alone History lesson on it.

Pah! Cheltenham Ladies! I have a relative who went there and she did no better academically than I did at my state school.

Um, why is that a good thing?

Because in our own lives things are rarely compartmentalised in to one subject. It is important that children learn how to apply conceptual knowledge in practical situations and across different subjects. Students that come in to the classroom these days are increasingly digitally literate, and expect it to be integrated in to their daily lives in a way that we never experienced when we were at school.

Re: Cheltenham. Apparently at Kensington Prep they assign ipads to girls in year 4?5? somewhere around then and the girls do quite a good chunk of their work on it. This caused an uproar in one of the parents' nights and the headmistress said basically this is the way forward, we're embracing technology.

I thought this was interesting. I have a few friends with daughters there.

Interesting as DS now attends an online school, yet we do lots more hands on stuff than most kids as I'm an art school graduate. Personally I think it's a balance. A bone idle teacher will use technology as a crutch for her poor differentiation and discipline, a good one will utilise it to the maximum extent so that even the dyspraxic child will be able to produce a chapter story, containing good grammar and spelling in a timely manner.

I was always shocked in my old neighbourhood at the number of parents who didn't cook with their kids, cos they didn't want a messy kitchen. Yet I felt a bit of spilt flour was well worth all the educational opportunities it presented from literacy in reading the recipe, to maths for measuring ingredients to the fact my child was gaining a valuable life skill.

At his last school the French teacher used cartoons/videos/computer games and powerpoint to support the French vocab etc she was teaching to fantastic effect. DS despite his ASD was totally engaged, and really looked forward to her lessons. For 30 minutes a week I felt the children came away having learnt the maximum possible in such a short time frame. I really admire the woman, and think she's absolute epitomy of what a good teacher should be.

Technology is a tool, & some teachers are more skilled in its use than others. I'd ask lots of questions on what the teachers are DOING with the tech, in terms of learning outcomes before passing judgement.

Overmydead, please spare me the patronising tone. "real education isn't just acquiring facts, it is about being curious, inquisitive, interested, and willing to put effort in to learn new skills that you didn't know before." No kidding!

Why can't students just immerse themselves in a subject? And as another poster brought up, top private schools and grammar schools simply don't do this kind of "holistic cross-curriculum" stuff. There is no evidence that it is more powerful or interesting.

Ds2 was in reception last year. He really struggles with writing, fine motor control and making the pencil make a mark on the paper (or marker on whiteboard as it often is).

As the year progressed, when the got to doing spelling stuff, ds was getting behind because he could only write very slowly, even though he could tell you the answers. So, he had a computer he could type his answers on so he could keep up with his classmates. However, if it was a handwriting lesson he had to write on paper/whiteboard. Plus he was getting extra small group intervention to help him develop strength and control in his hands. A great use of technology to support a young child, over and above typical apps.

This year on the other hand, despite his last teacher saying he was near the top of he class for understanding new concepts and doing things in Maths, he's in the middle set as he takes so long to write answers as his new teacher doesn't get the difference. And as a result he's finding it boring as he can do everything easily, which leads to a downward spiral.

And as another poster brought up, top private schools and grammar schools simply don't do this kind of "holistic cross-curriculum" stuff.

Really? They do in my LA.

cingo I didn't mean to sound patronising, I was just getting passionate about inspiring children, I didn't intend for it to come across like I was telling you. I'm just discussing the topic, in general, not everything in my post was aimed at you specifically.

The point I was trying to make, is it is pretty hard to teach something well without there being links to other curriculum areas, if children are getting fully immersed in something they are probably learning other skills, from other curriculum areas, while they do it. So it might as well be acknowledged and harnessed by the teacher too.