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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be a bit shocked at the landlord who is evicting 200 families because they are on housing benefit

382 replies

wetaugust · 06/01/2014 19:25

Heard this and 'Wow' - I was shocked.

He's being interviewed on C4 News.

He'd rather rent them to Eatern Europeans who are working.

He said that if house prices go up then rents should go up.

He said he's not the only landlord doing this.

Wow!

So some local authority will have to find new housing for all these people.

Where will this end?

I am stunned. Shock

OP posts:
CouthyMow · 12/01/2014 01:46

Maybe if the Local Authorities didn't have an 11 week backlog in starting to pay out claims, or changing payments when there is a change of circumstance, then this wouldn't have happened.

I nearly got evicted after moving house, to an adapted house that the Council had moved me to (so knew I was blooming moving), because it took them 11 weeks to process the change of address and rent rise form, and another 3 weeks to PAY the Housing Association the rent owed to them (I still have mine paid direct to LL, otherwise there would have been a further delay whilst I waited for the funds to clear into my bank in order for me to pay them out.

I was lucky - I had my lovely Housing Officer that I've known for 15 years on a personal level hold off the HA from getting a notice of seeking possession, but one more week and I would have been given notice.

It's crap, but it's the inefficiencies of the Housing Benefits departments that causes these arrears, and I can understand why a Private LL might get too pissed off with that.

LL's are running a business. They aren't going to want to wait 3 months or more for their first payment of rent, are they?!

CouthyMow · 12/01/2014 03:34

And yes, rent controls.

That is where it is going wrong.

Yes, rent controls would leave lots of BTL LL's in negative equity. But when their homes got repossessed through a change in benefits policy, HOW is that worse than a family being left HOMELESS through a change in benefits policy, as is happening in this situation, with the 200 families being evicted through the changes in HB payments?

So, BTL LL's would lose money, maybe even have the BTL property repossessed. THEY WILL STILL HAVE A BLOODY HOME TO LIVE IN. They haven't 'lost everything', they will just have to make the same provision for their pensions as everyone else has to.

Sorry if I can't get too emotional about the idea of a BTL LL having their 'investment' repossessed, then put back in the market at current value, thus driving down the overall costs of housing for everyone. IT'S A HOME, NOT A 'COMMODITY' OR AN 'INVESTMENT'.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the "30% of market value" thing that governs the too rate of HB payable for property is disingenuous. Why? Because chances are that not ONE property in the cheapest 30% of Private Rentals in that whole town is actually EMPTY and available for bloody rent.

So it's not as easy as "if you can't afford the top up, find a cheaper property". It's more like "we will have to move our family of two adults and two teenage DC's into a one-bed flat as the HB just will not cover ANY empty 2-bed properties. Even if your teenagers are a girl and a boy, sharing a room with you now...

This LL is just bloody reprehensible. My Cousin's home in Ashford was a veritable fucking death trap (dodgy boiler this bastard refused to fix). If it wasn't for my Auntie replacing my cousin's bond money, she would have to have moved back home. Because the bastard wouldn't pay that back either as my cousin hadn't stayed for the 6 month contract.

LL's shouldn't be allowed to own this many BTL properties without being MADE to run them in the same way that Housing Associations do.

Rent controls, set at what the cost of a Housing Association manages to charge for a property of the same size, in the same area, at a reasonable standard of decoration should be the norm.

If my small, local HA can rent out a 4-bed, large lounge, dining room, small garden, ADAPTED property (rent is more as it's adapted) for £171 a week, whilst carrying out annual gas safety checks, contracting gardener to look after the shared outside spaces (in the car park), contract a repairs company to deal with any necessary repairs, then why do the private LL's locally see fit to charge over £340 a week for an equivalent property?!!

Why not cap the BTL LL's rent at, say, £200 max per week for this type of property, AND insist that they follow the same regulations as HA's have to, by completing repairs within set time frames or having to pay the Tenant compensation?

(As a note, it's VERY rare for a HA to end up having to pay compensation for a repair failing to be carried out on time where I live)

If they want more profit from their 'investment' than BTL with rent controls would allow them to make (I will NOT say 'earn', as earning implies working for), then they will have to find some other scheme to invest in.

May I suggest becoming an arms dealer or a drug dealer? They might actually be more ethical ways to make money off an 'investment' than the sort of profiteering that BTL LL's with multiple properties are trying to do.

Now, I personally have nothing major against those 'accidental' BTL LL's who have one property they are unable to sell, and are doing things in a decent way, but those that then continue to buy more and more properties? Those I DO have an issue with.

Council tax reductions for second homes needs to stop, if you choose to own a holiday home, you are preventing someone from having an ACTUAL home, and should be made to pay for that privilege.

Tenants don't 'have a right' to stay in a property after their notice period is up, most do so VERY reluctantly, due to Council Homelessness rules, they are not actually homeless until the actual eviction date.

If they need to get housed through the homelessness route, then they have absolutely NO choice, even if they hate doing that to their LL's.

That COULD be changed, but NOT by the Tenant. Who, I wonder, makes the policies governing applications for Social Housing that Local Government administer...?

If the Government so wished, to make things easier for BOTH LL's that give notice AND the Tenants becoming Homeless due to that notice, they could change the regulations to state that a LA has to accept the Notice date as the date from which the Tenant is 'officially' homeless and they have to help, rather than the actual Eviction date.

And as for HMO's, far too lax regulations abound on how many are allowed in each given area. If it was based on services etc, then the LA should be refusing far more planning applications for HMO certification.

And it IS obvious that after these Tenants in Kent are evicted, that due to this bastard's monopoly on the local rental market, he is going to relet these properties as 'emergency temporary accommodation' BACK to the very same families. If he's still sitting on other empty properties, he is deliberately slowing down the local rental market in order to charge a much inflated rent for the 'Emergency Temporary Accommodation' as there is just no way that that Council can find that many places in temp accommodation, without recourse to the local rental market...which is this reprehensible bastard.

Soooo...who is bailing him out? Not the fucking banks, but the taxpayers. The 'spare room subsidy / bedroom tax / your personal name for it' was just an underhanded way in which to transfer money from the public purse to multiple property LL's, via the ARTIFICIALLY CREATED need for 'emergency temporary accommodation'. Paying up to TWICE the level of standard HB...

CouthyMow · 12/01/2014 03:47

Building more social housing would have the triple-pronged approach of 1) Boosting the economy by providing employment to those building it. 2) Providing homes to the hundreds of thousands on the housing lists and those that are currently homeless, thus cutting the benefit bill as Social Housing Rents are lower than Private Rents and 3) lowering the rents overall as supply would be greater.

Also, stop developers from buying chunks of land, and just 'sitting' on them, not building on them. Again, this artificially 'controls' the supply of available housing. Put back into the regulations about them having to build X amount of Social Housing on each development of over Y houses.

Stop our serving politicians (of ALL flavours) from holding property portfolios and they might be more inclined to fix this situation, rather than manipulating the rules to create more profit for themselves.

Ugh, this whole subject is depressing. When people can't see that shelter is a human necessity, I despair.

coco44 · 12/01/2014 09:53

'Yes, rent controls would leave lots of BTL LL's in negative equity'

I don't think so! Surely if the rent on their property does not make it worthwhile they will sell. THus reducing the rental stock

Yes2014 · 12/01/2014 10:18

Yy to rent controls. The need for both these and social housing is so obvious but no party will even touch the issues, I despair.

Yes2014 · 12/01/2014 10:22

If rent controls would leave landlords in negative equity then that's a pretty big sign that they shouldn't have bought the btl property in the first place? And I hardly think it's time to get the violins out for them, since they wouldn't be losing their actual home, just their hobby/investment/money for nothing property.

NoseWiperExtraordinaire · 12/01/2014 10:44

I've no objection in theory to the building of more social housing if it is needed and there is absolutely no alternative. But not if it results in the costs being transferred to HA tenants (& HB) in higher rents. I believe this is on the agenda and is the reason behind proposals to bring social rents more in line with market rates.

I would proffer that if house prices decrease, and there are restrictions on the number of btls with tighter regulation across the rental sector, there will be less need for as many new builds and demand on social housing since many will afford their own.

Trouble is it is not a vote winner for those who are not "bigger thinkers", or social minded, but who wield a lot of financial power and political clout. IMO it is still the responsibility of the banks and the state who allowed them to freewheel for so long, and if we have to buy people off with incentives/compensation for negative equity in order to get society back on an even keel, then so be it.

NoseWiperExtraordinaire · 12/01/2014 10:47

coco the issue will be when rent controls make renting not work, and if the value of their house is then less than what they paid, they end up owing more. It will be a real cost to them.

ReallyTired · 12/01/2014 12:34

How does rent controls work for the tenant who wants the extra luxury and is not on housing benefit. There are different types of tenants with completely different needs.

Tenant A: Is from South Africa and has a well paid six month contract in the UK. He has chosen to rent a flat in an expensive luxury complex at about three times the rent of a council flat. His extra rent pays for secure parking, well kept gardens. The landlord pays a service charge(covered by the high rent) which gives his tenant access to a gym, tennis courts and a swimming pool on site.

Tenant B: Has just gone through a divorce and is renting short term until the family home is sold.

Tenant C: A family has moved to a new area and wants to know the town before commiting to buying.

"I've no objection in theory to the building of more social housing if it is needed and there is absolutely no alternative. But not if it results in the costs being transferred to HA tenants (& HB) in higher rents. I believe this is on the agenda and is the reason behind proposals to bring social rents more in line with market rates."

The issue is making sure that the right people get low social rents. The issue is making sure that low income people have enough money to live on. A family on 60K or even 30K does not need rent at present social housing levels.

3asAbird · 12/01/2014 12:48

no party wants to help a renter?

the new help to buy will just increase prices.

house prices on rise here

so much so my landlord wants to sell.

i have 2.5months need be out by 31st marh find new family home locally within private sector.

Im looking at 950-1000 for 3bed property.

£350 agency fees.
£1000+bond and 1months rent upfront.

cleaning and moving costs.

feeling pretty worries as stuff goes so quick and looking on right move so many dumps overpriced.

creamteas · 12/01/2014 13:35

How does rent controls work for the tenant who wants the extra luxury and is not on housing benefit

Rent Control does not mean identical rents, and clearly if a property has additional assets (gym, pool) then the rent would be higher than one without.

It does mean that the LL cannot raise the rent when they feel like it as rents can be aligned with cost of living rates/average wage rises etc.

ReallyTired · 12/01/2014 14:49

There is already the Residental Property Tribuanal for assured tenancies. The landlords cannot raise the rent more than once a year and if the landlord is too greedy then a residental property tribunal can lower the rent. There is no need for stricter laws, there is a need for tenants and landlords to understand their rights and responsiblities.

I feel that letting agencies are a significant part of the problem. If a council was prepared to act as a residental letting agency (offering a rent guarentee) then rents would be lower. At the moment many landlords pay 10 to 15% of the rent to a middle man who does sweet FA.

ReallyTired · 12/01/2014 14:51

The UK already has rent controls. However rent controls is not the same as living almost rent free or paying peppercorn rent which is what some posters clearly want.

www.gov.uk/housing-tribunals

SaucyJack · 12/01/2014 15:06

living almost rent free or paying peppercorn rent

Our rent is roughly around a third of my DP's full-time wage a week- and that's for a council flat - so as cheap as rent can be round here.

Exactly what planet are you living on where you think that counts as "almost rent-free"?

NoseWiperExtraordinaire · 12/01/2014 15:40

Re: tribunals, the trouble with this is that it is down to the tenant to become a "moaner". I would feel increasingly uncomfortable with taking things this far and expecting anything like a good working relationship with my landlord afterwards. Especially since most contracts are 6 months to a year, when the landlord could legally evict and then re-advertise at the rate he wants. I imagine this is what allows unscrupulous lls to chance their arm, and what puts people off moaning, not that they don't understand.

I agree letting agents are a big part of the problem. I know those locally who have admitted it is fairly customary to increase the rent by £50 or so each time a tenant has moved out, and I can see on the local market the same properties that come up every 6 months or year or so, seem to be going up in these increments each time they become available.

NoseWiperExtraordinaire · 12/01/2014 15:50

And I often wonder if we should change the way letting agents operate altogether. I'd like to see them regulated as some kind of social enterprise, unable to manipulate the landlord/tenant relationship for their own ends.

NoseWiperExtraordinaire · 12/01/2014 17:49

The issue is making sure that the right people get low social rents.

Yes, you are right in some respects. But actually, if house prices and rents came down for everyone, and we acted to protect those against severe loss (ie losing the home they live in because of negative equity on a btl for example) then I'm not sure I'd object to wealthier people having more disposable income.

It would perhaps stop the resentment (that is so prevalent) that they are little better off than the "scroungers".

NoseWiperExtraordinaire · 12/01/2014 18:05

Stop our serving politicians (of ALL flavours) from holding property portfolios and they might be more inclined to fix this situation, rather than manipulating the rules to create more profit for themselves.

Yes, Mouthy, it would certainly ensure there were no conflicted interests.

NoseWiperExtraordinaire · 12/01/2014 18:07

Couthy

I do apologise Shock

Lazysuzanne · 12/01/2014 19:13

bloody letting agents...leeches and pimps the lot of them Angry

ComposHat · 12/01/2014 19:20

Suzanne I agree. In a decade of renting I don't think I met a letting agent who has dome anything approaching a decent job. If some (most) of the landlords were arseholes, then letting agents were tagnuts.

NoseWiperExtraordinaire · 12/01/2014 19:26

Perhaps all renters should form a union and go on strike lol.

ReallyTired · 12/01/2014 19:43

"
Our rent is roughly around a third of my DP's full-time wage a week- and that's for a council flat - so as cheap as rent can be round here."

That is peppercorn rent compared to the private sector. Many families pay half their monthly salary for a mortgage/ rent on a tiny property.

I think that some posters don't realise how lucky they are.

ComposHat · 12/01/2014 19:50

really I would suggest you look up what a Peppercorn rent is.

Lazysuzanne · 12/01/2014 20:27

yes, Reallytired yours is a clear misuse of the term 'peppercorn rent'