To totally dread bedtimes...

[ToughTimes]

Words that I never thought would leave my lips!

Ds1 (2.10) has become an utter utter NIGHTMARE to put down. He screams constantly, and cries and cries till we stay with him. He's recently got over an ear infection (which was the cause of his upset), but he's never got back to normal sleep wise really..

He now refuses to let me put him to bed-it has to be DH, and I'm dreading the days when DH works late as DS will no doubt kick up a stink. DH sat with him for 45 mins tonight till he fell asleep, something I can't do as I have another baby to settle and put to bed.

This has totally floored me as I thought bedtimes and sleep would get better as they get older. Totally flummoxed though..

You're not alone! The day I brought DS home from hospital post c-section, DD (25 months) worked out how to open her bedroom door. At first she stayed in her room at bedtime, but now every evening is a battle to get her to remain there. It is just so draining! And I have the problem that she just wants me, which is tricky when DH is meant to be putting her to bed so I can BF DS...

No solutions but it can't be so uncommon?!

Sorry to hear that wibbly.. I know it's probably common but I can't believe how things changed in a matter of weeks. We'd literally pop him into bed and he'd sleep by himself.. It's so awful now as it takes 1.5-2 hours to get him to settle. We've cut out his nap too in the hope he'll be tired enough to sleep..

Another one here with a 2.11 year old whose bedtime has gone to pot because of the change in routine over Christmas. She hasn't gone to sleep before 9pm for over a week now and two nights in a row she has got out of bed and come back into the living room to see us (she never did this before; we're in a maisonette so living room is next to her bedroom).

She keeps saying "not yet" when we tell her its time for sleep and I have to stay with her when she eventually drops off.

So frustrating.

Oh God. We've had a 3.30 wake-up call (he slept at 9pm despite being up from 5am yesterday and not having a nap the entire day). He keeps shouting that he wants to go down. Poor thing is clearly overtired but he just doesn't ant to sleep. I had to drop his naps cos he used to cry and not want to stay in bed (he's in a cotbed so can't come out). Short of leaving him to cry to sleep, I just am at a loss.

How does one sleep train an almost 3 year old?!??

I sympathise. My DS went through a phase of taking 1.5 hours to get to sleep and one of us had to be sitting in the room with him for aaaaaages. It was exhausting and we regularly fell asleep on his floor. It totally wrecked any chance of an evening together too which had a negative impact on our relationship.

We tried Tanya Byron's rapid return at about 3.2. He just thought it was a fantastic game - and then became hysterical and was even harder to het to sleep. We also tried popping back and giving him a kiss if he was still in bed every 5, 10, 15 mins. No joy. Didn't stay in bedroom for longer than 2 mins.

Tried rapid return at nearly 4 backed up by sticker chart and promise of (small) toy, transfer etc if he gets 3 in a row and treat outing or Octonaut toy he REALLY wants if he gets whole sheet. BINGO within a couple of nights! So extra bribery seemed to work for us - but maybe it helps to be old enough to do a bit of delayed gratification too? Sorry for long post.

I've experienced this with DS who's now 6. It is hideous and we tried everything. He's been through various sleep problems, including not going to sleep before midnight, screaming in the middle of the night and not letting anyone near him shouting 'no daddy, don't touch me!' over and over, which I fully expected our new neighbours to at least wonder if child abuses had moved in next door, waking at 4.30 am for 3 weeks, needing us to sit with him for over an hour while he fell asleep for months on end.

But, he's now 6, is asleep by 8pm awake at 6am (goes downstairs to watch telly while we sleep) and life is good. We have no idea if anything we tried worked but it's my guess he just grew up and into a good sleeping pattern.

My only advice is to make sure you go to bed when you can and take it in turns with DH to deal with your DS so each of you get at least one good nights sleep every other night. It will get better I promise!

My 5 year old is a nightmare at bedtime. Most nights now it is an hour plus of me or dh going up and down the stairs to settle him. I dread bedtimes now. My two year old goes to sleep in minutes. Think it should be the other way round!

As a much older mum with grown kids I feel for you all!!! Even though I was a very strict witch at bed time!! I sooo remember those days!! The only thing I can say is ,like everything, this will pass. All three of mine are still asleep now and I got up at 7am!! The only advise I can give is you have to be totally uninteresting at bed time. (After story etc) Don't talk, DONT get cross, take back to bed, ignore crying/screaming, if it takes sitting there, just do it and don't wind your self up if you know your going to do it eventually. I told my kids I went to bed as soon as they were asleep...they believed me for years!!! The very early mornings were a killer and have no advice on that...went on for years. 4.30-5am every day for years!!! I went to bed at 9pm myself. Tell you what though... After changing nappy, getting drink or toast etc I DID NOT TALK, PLAY, INTERACT IN ANY WAY!! Till 7am when I announced 'MORNING!' I read a book and was there physically, but told kids its not morning yet. TV on, thank God for early morning kids TV. My three were and are still fine. I always said that when they were teenagers I would wake them up early just to get my own back!!! I love my quiet mornings now. Good luck everyone and remember.. 'This too shall pass'.

Sorry should also add that only wanting you and not Daddy(or Daddy not you) could be a delaying tactic. Kids are very clever about using anything to delay the moment. I used to be a broken record...Ie Its Mummy putting you to bed tonight..Dont get sucked into it. You have to be in charge.. not easy when you are knd. Try your hardest not to get stressed..

Thanks for all the advise (and sympathies!)...

He went back to sleep about 5am and slept till 7.30am. However, neither DH nor I went to his room. We just left him shouting for a while till he got the message and went quiet.

I actually felt bad I didn't go in, but find if I do go, he gets more hysterical when I try to leave. Am I leaving him to CIO though? I'm thinking if that's the way to go-just leave him and see whether he stops shouting in the night. He's in a cot bed so can't physically get out, but I feel guilty that we're being cruel..

I know I am old fashioned and their crying/screaming upset me...but I NEVER thought I was damaging them emotionally. You being so tired and angry ...now that can be a dangerous combination. Honestly I left all mine to cry/scream at sometime in their lives (Dr Chris Green, My Guru in the early 90s advocated tying the door so they could open it but not get out. worked for us but sometimes fell asleep behind door!) and they are lovely independent confident young adults.(WHO DONT REMEMBER ANY OF IT!!!!) Think about it...what are you actually doing?...ignoring him...he gets angry but eventually goes back to sleep...no harm done. Please don't beat yourself up about it.

you aren't being cruel OP. what is cruel is having a sleep deprived child and parent. there is nothing wrong with him now. he is shouting because he can. sorry but I am an evil witch mother and at nearly 3 he knows that he should be going to bed and going to sleep and all this is just about pushing you to see how much rope you will give him. leave him to it. if he is ill of course go in but if not then you have to take control. of course he is getting hysterical when you leave him because you aren't doing what he wants. this is really common at this age and you have to decide what is personally the lesser of the two evils - leaving him to it for a couple of nights or doing this for days/weeks/months or however long it takes him to decide he doesn't want to play this game any more. I know which side of the fence I sit.

Routine is the key. It all goes out of the window over holidays of if the little one has been ill.

You can't overestimate the importance of routine and keeping calm. It is so easy to get cross and p-ed off with them!

A crying child won't die, but the stress on you will be worse! Be kind to each other, sit down with a cuppa and your favourite box set of comedy. Don't get stressed. You love your child and want what's best. Remind yourself that you are good parents and its just a phase!

Yes, you are probably tired and want to get on with grown up stuff/crash on the sofa with a cuppa but... Well, kids, eh? They press those buttons every time!

Start the routine early. Maybe even a couple of hours. If your child is time aware, or you have a night time clock then show them where the clock hands and and talk them through it - this is bathtime, then we have a story/smuggle... Whatever the routine is.

Try not to have drinks in the run up if that will cause numerous loo trips! Avoid stimulation - a tickle fight before bedtime is not to be advised.

Think about what you want and how you can get there. A child won't conk out in ten minutes on night one. Even if they stay in their room all night, that can be a win!

A child wants your attention. If they are ill, scared, etc, then that's a genuine thing - otherwise you need to beel calm and 'business like'. Don't get into long, involved chats or interactions - this is what they want! If a child keeps getting up 'back to bed please' and withdraw. A child crying - check there is no 'need' (dirty nappy, thirsty etc) - don't turn on the light. Be firm with them, tell them what you need them to do.

Older children will need some sort of 'point' system' - whatever works. So if they have 60 mins computer time, start a mental taxi meter running, so count out when they kick off - calling out to get attenion is 30 seconds, 1 or 2 mins off computer time. Jumping out of bed to stomp about is 5 mins, etc. Tell them so that they know - write it down. They will kick off at first but do quickly learn. They can also 'earn' minutes back - this is the beauty - if they make the bed in the morning, that's 1 minute earned! They are only small amounts, but it works - same can work with pocket money - a penny at at time, or half a penny. Again - can be earned back for 'positive behaviour'.

Thanks again for the helpful hints.. I will try and girdle my loins for a potentially tough few weeks. I like to think I'm firm but fair with both children, but obviously have moments where I waver and think I am too strict. DH's biggest criticism of me is I am too strict with the DC, especially DS1. But part of my work is with children, and I see so many unruly and out of control ones it scares me!...