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Original poster

To buy this land and risk upsetting the tenants next door

999 replies

Mrsdavidcaruso · 04/01/2014 12:31

Long story short. My house is at the back of a large house which was converted into flats last year. I own the freehold to my property and have had problems with the tenants of the flats parking on what is actually my land. It got bad when the LL of the large house 'rented' a part of my property to one of his tenants as an extra parking space and it took a long time and solicitors letters to get it all sorted.

I also had to spend money on getting bollards and a fence to ensure no-one parked on my property.

My property is at the end of a T shape and I part is used as a passage to my house ( I have legal access over it) and a parking area for 5 cars rented by the LL to his tenants

However because of all the problems my solicitor has done some digging to ensure my legal right of way and that nothing comes back to bite me on the bum with the owners of the large house.

It then got interesting - it seems that the LL bought the large house at auction on a 99 year lease. My Solicitor saw the legal pack and there was no mention of the land on the paperwork.

He has now found out through the freeholder that the land does not actually belong to the large house but to the house next door.

The freeholder of the house next door has confirmed yes its his land but as he does not live in the house was unaware that the LL of the large house was using it as far as he was aware only I had access to it.

He has now contacted my Solicitors and offered to sell me the land, If I don’t want to buy he is going to offer the LL the chance to lease it from him but if he does that I am worried about my own access across it.

I am very tempted I can enlarge my garden and my husband (who rents a garage ) can also park his car on the property we can afford it and it may increase the value of my house and provide a safer environment for my DS and bump when he/she arrives.

But that is not going to sit well with the tenants of the large house and I can forsee huge problems with them as a couple were very abusive to me during the problem with the parking before.

I have a couple of weeks to decide. I know it would not fair to the tenants but its something they will have to take up with their LL as either he has been badly advised/mistaken or is chancing his arm renting out parking spaces when he knows its not his land (I suspect the latter).

According to my Solicitor there would be no legal or planning issues if I wanted to change the area to a larger garden (although I will check with the council myself)

So would I be UR to buy it

OP posts:
nennypops · 23/01/2014 13:19

I think you ought to be tearing strips off the LA for taking photos of your land

Not really. There's nothing illegal about taking photos of other people's property. How else do you imagine we are all allowed to take photos of picturesque views? However, if you go onto their property to do it without permission, that's trespass.

OwlCapone · 23/01/2014 13:19

At the very least, could you paint a line as a visual marker of your new boundary?

NynaevesSister · 23/01/2014 13:44

OP hope you're feeling better x

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 23/01/2014 13:48

Although this is a long thread, pleases remember the OP only bought the land about two weeks ago and is suffering with morning sickness amongst other things.

HoneyDragon · 23/01/2014 13:56

Have shamelessly lurked on this thread since the start. Well done you, but make sure you look after yourself. Nothing worse than feeling sick and being stressed.

PedantMarina · 23/01/2014 13:59

I was prepared to feel a teeny bit sympathetic to the neighbour who was talking with the LA - possibly she was only taking pictures in order to strengthen her case against the LA or the LL.

But taking pictures of your child, that's way out of line. That's so far beyond the line it's a dot in the rear view mirror. There was no legitimate reason [that I can see, and I've got a fuckuva imagination] for her to do that. That's pure harrassment and evil. Further, whilst taking a picture of a bit of property is perfectly fine, a sleb's knickers as she gets out of a car on the red carpet is legally justifiable, etc, taking a picture of a child on his own property way at the other end of the scale. I honestly would ring 101 and bring them up to speed on this.

Remember how happy we all (including and esp you, MrsD) were going to be when the tenants found out and had to be nice to you? Looks like it didn't work out as well as we'd hoped.

What are you going to do about it now?

(Oh, and virtual hugs).

pollyputthekettleonagain · 23/01/2014 13:59

actually im sure that the trespass was repealed a little while ago. someone can stand right outside your window on land you own and you cant do anything about it.

ive tried to check on Wikipedia, but its not showing up. however its one of those things that is filed away in the back of my mind becase i thought... the bastards! when i found out about it

merrymouse · 23/01/2014 14:16

The lady is unidentified and I think might have been somebody from the Letting Agent's office or somebody advising the Letting Agent.

Leaving aside the OP, I it sounds as though the landlord is probably in very hot water with the tenants, the council and the letting agent, (and anybody else he has involved in the scheme including the bank), so I wouldn't expect this to be the last person coming around measuring and taking photos.

merrymouse · 23/01/2014 14:16

Sorry "the lady taking photos".

pollyputthekettleonagain · 23/01/2014 14:19

sorry that should have read trespass law was repealed

EmmelineGoulden · 23/01/2014 14:28

Assuming you are in England or Wales, I would be a bit careful about over reaching in your complaint regarding the photo. I see you feel strongly about it, but trespass is only a civil offence (which they weren't committing at all when they took the photo of the child, as you called them over) and taking a photo is no offence at all. While grabbing someone's arm and holding onto it to force them to delete a photo is criminal assault (though I'm sure nothing will come of it as it's ridiculously minor and the you won't have caused any harm to the LA, but it does give them ammunition). So instead of tearing a strip off them for past acts, speak to your solicitor about the best way to get the LAs to stop coming on your land. I like going down the harassment route, but don't know if it would hold up if the LL is giving them different information (i.e. if the LL is saying the land is his, their actions in photographing the parking area may be considered reasonable - I don't know). Maybe there's a way for a legal letter to allow you to lay the ground for a civil claim for future trespass or something.

summertimeandthelivingiseasy · 23/01/2014 14:35

If you want someone to stay off your land, you will need a court order for the police to be able to act. Trespass is no longer a criminal offence.

'Assuming access' is a civil matter - your solicitor should be helping here. The LA should be contacting you if they need to work on your patch, but if they are not digging things up or driving heavy vehicles over it etc, there is not much to stop. Ask them, as a matter of courtesy, to inform you of their intentions.

summertimeandthelivingiseasy · 23/01/2014 14:42

To get a court order, you would probably have to go to court and enforce your ownership. This can be v expensive, especially if it is contested and even when you have an open and shut case.

I would (with OH and advice from solicitor) go and apologise to the LA for over-reacting (past difficulties, fraught etc) and give them sight of the documentation that says you own it. Maybe you will get some info about the current state of affairs with the LL in the process.

Keep everything watertight on the legal side, but avoid courts, unless you are rich.

HeadfirstThroughTheTimeVortex · 23/01/2014 14:50

It is now your land, get a fence up. The LL or LA will have to deal with the neighbours.

If the neighbour taking photos was trying to build up a case against the LL she could have just asked first.

AnneEyhtMeyer · 23/01/2014 15:07

I am still at a loss why a fence hasn't gone up. Has your solicitor advised against it?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 23/01/2014 15:18

Anne, she has only owned the property since 10th jan - give her a break.

OP, did your solicitor decide whether to send the letters direct in the end?

AnneEyhtMeyer · 23/01/2014 15:22

What? I'm not harassing her or anything, Doctrine. Hmm

If it were me, the day I got ownership I would have had the fencing company in. Loads of people have said the same. I'm just asking if there a legal reason for holding back.

nauticant · 23/01/2014 15:37

The OP is a real person and not a character in a soap who must dance to the tune of the thread in order to keep up a breathy pace of "continual exciting updates".

shoom · 23/01/2014 16:07

Lots of people have suggested that a fence may be useful, so would be interested to know what the OP / her solicitor thinks about it.

No-one has demanded that the OP dance to any tune, well not that I've seen. [sceptical]

OwlCapone · 23/01/2014 16:18

the letter sent said I require sole use of my property by 13th February 2014 - do you propose she fence in any parked cars?

Original poster
Mrsdavidcaruso · 23/01/2014 16:26

Hi - first of all thanks to everyone who has shown interest there has been a lot of developments today.

First of all I phoned the manager of the LA and it turns out I know him (small island) he is married to someone I worked with so he has been very helpful.

Turns out although his company is looking after the LA properties ( he has another on the island) they were not involved with him when he first let out the flat so its a learning curve for him

Got an apology for his employee photographing my DS, but they were not sure at the time what exactly the situation is so I told him.

Letter will go out tonight telling the tenants that due to an 'oversight' it has been proved that the land on which they are parking does not belong to the LL and therefore from 15th Feb ( I have agreed the dates) no tenant will be permitted to park there and will have to make alternative arrangements.

The problem is that the rent on these flats are about 5% over and above rents for other flats in the area and the tenants would have believed that the extra rent was for off road parking, so he is having strong words with the LL about the need to reduce the rents for the tenants that want to stay, he has a portfolio of rental properties in the area with parking to show to the tenants who want to move.

SO I can order the fencing I didnt do it before as I was a bit worried about the fall out but LA has made it clear they will be communicating with the tenants, they have not actually told the tenants that its OH and me who own the land but says it wont take them long to figure it out themselves but any problems to phone him.

I asked him what will happen if they refuse to stop parking and continue to do so after 15th, he says that yes it may be a problem but he will follow up his letter at end of Jan and ask the tenants what plans they have made to park in a alternative area.

So WHEW things are moving

BTW for the person who asked I didn't see the reaction to my DS Cow comment

OP posts:
mistlethrush · 23/01/2014 16:32

Wow - what a positive update! Sounds as though LA is quite happy to drop the LL in it! Grin

TheDrugsWorkABitTooWellThanks · 23/01/2014 16:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheSkiingGardener · 23/01/2014 16:37

I love the fact that you seem to end up knowing everybody useful. Big advantage of Island life! Hope it all goes smoothly now.

TheSkiingGardener · 23/01/2014 16:37

Ooh, trampoline so you can wave at them all in their flat windows!