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Original poster

To buy this land and risk upsetting the tenants next door

999 replies

Mrsdavidcaruso · 04/01/2014 12:31

Long story short. My house is at the back of a large house which was converted into flats last year. I own the freehold to my property and have had problems with the tenants of the flats parking on what is actually my land. It got bad when the LL of the large house 'rented' a part of my property to one of his tenants as an extra parking space and it took a long time and solicitors letters to get it all sorted.

I also had to spend money on getting bollards and a fence to ensure no-one parked on my property.

My property is at the end of a T shape and I part is used as a passage to my house ( I have legal access over it) and a parking area for 5 cars rented by the LL to his tenants

However because of all the problems my solicitor has done some digging to ensure my legal right of way and that nothing comes back to bite me on the bum with the owners of the large house.

It then got interesting - it seems that the LL bought the large house at auction on a 99 year lease. My Solicitor saw the legal pack and there was no mention of the land on the paperwork.

He has now found out through the freeholder that the land does not actually belong to the large house but to the house next door.

The freeholder of the house next door has confirmed yes its his land but as he does not live in the house was unaware that the LL of the large house was using it as far as he was aware only I had access to it.

He has now contacted my Solicitors and offered to sell me the land, If I don’t want to buy he is going to offer the LL the chance to lease it from him but if he does that I am worried about my own access across it.

I am very tempted I can enlarge my garden and my husband (who rents a garage ) can also park his car on the property we can afford it and it may increase the value of my house and provide a safer environment for my DS and bump when he/she arrives.

But that is not going to sit well with the tenants of the large house and I can forsee huge problems with them as a couple were very abusive to me during the problem with the parking before.

I have a couple of weeks to decide. I know it would not fair to the tenants but its something they will have to take up with their LL as either he has been badly advised/mistaken or is chancing his arm renting out parking spaces when he knows its not his land (I suspect the latter).

According to my Solicitor there would be no legal or planning issues if I wanted to change the area to a larger garden (although I will check with the council myself)

So would I be UR to buy it

OP posts:
mistlethrush · 23/01/2014 11:59

If you're under the English system, you can apply for planning consent on land that doesn't belong to you - but you need to serve notice on the landowner. But if the application to turn the property into flats is on-line it should show you the 'red line' site location plan and the proposals, hopefully including parking on the plan too.

squoosh · 23/01/2014 12:11

Have just finished reading this thread, you've definitely done the right thing buying the land. Agree with erecting a fence sharpish.

ShadowFall · 23/01/2014 12:11

How does applying for planning consent on land that doesn't belong to you work? Confused

Surely you'd have to actually own the land before anything could be done to it?

Lweji · 23/01/2014 12:13

The problem here is that the solicitor won't simply say, put a fence up.
He's being paid for advice and for sending letters.

fuzzywuzzy · 23/01/2014 12:14

Really Mistlethrush? I could apply for planning on my neighbours driveway??? That would be hilarious (and utterly unreasonable)

Damnautocorrect · 23/01/2014 12:15

You can apply for planning if you don't own it. Sounds bizarre but you can

mistlethrush · 23/01/2014 12:16

Yup, you could apply for an extension that went into your neighbour's garden - but you would have to 'serve a notice' to them that you have done that, and then, if granted consent, you wouldn't be able to implement it (build it) unless you came to a deal with them to buy that bit of your garden...

merrymouse · 23/01/2014 12:18

People apply for planning permission in advance of buying property because if they couldn't get planning permission there wouldn't be any point in buying it. Presumably though if you get planning permission to convert a building into 6 flats on the basis that there is parking for 6 cars and you don't then go on to purchase the relevant land the application becomes invalid?

fuzzywuzzy · 23/01/2014 12:21

oh right, that sounds a bit more sensible....pity I was thinking of applying for planning permission to build public toilets on ex's drive....so sad you've put the kibosh on that idea.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 23/01/2014 12:25

You can even apply for permission to demolish someone else's property. I liked this story about Gran vs Tesco:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7344045.stm

wetaugust · 23/01/2014 12:25

But if you do get planning permission on land that you don't own all you've done is increase the value of that land and consequently the price you would have to pay to buy it.

mistlethrush · 23/01/2014 12:27

Depends what you get consent for Wink

OddFodd · 23/01/2014 12:30

Good on you and your DS! I think he deserves a whole bag of chocolate buttons for that, not just a biscuit :)

Sounds like the LL's panicking a bit. Are the tenants still parking there?

TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 23/01/2014 12:33

Oh I'm not marking my place. Not at all...Smile

minibmw2010 · 23/01/2014 12:33

Clearly the LL has had his letter and the LA are worried. You've twice now told the LA that the land is yours and it seems like they aren't listening!

summertimeandthelivingiseasy · 23/01/2014 12:36

I think you need to check the original planning consent for the flats (online if possible) and then take that to the solicitor, to make sure that you can convert it back to garden. It needs looking at.

limitedperiodonly · 23/01/2014 12:37

There are solicitors and solicitors. Mine was very good.

Quite often he'd tell me to write my own letters and cast an eye over it for nothing to make sure I hadn't said anything stupid.

Other things, that needed his expertise he did, and charged for and he explained why he thought I needed him.

It was nice of him but it I guess it made sense for him too, because if he was writing a letter for me that he could charge £50 for, he couldn't use that time to do something for another client that he could charge £200 for.

Only the OP knows what her solicitor is like. Obviously you should keep an eye on legal costs, but it's a false economy not to get an expert to deal with some things or to act off your own bat and possibly muck things up because you're worried about spending and you don't trust your solicitor not to twist you.

I can't see any reason why OP doesn't put a fence up round her own property but then I'm not a solicitor.

Also I think merrymouse is right. The lettings agents may be trying to work out what's going on to cover themselves. They should explain themselves to the OP but people don't. How many times do you read on MN about a situation that could have been averted with a simple explanation but where the OP says: 'But I didn't say anything because I don't like confrontation'?

ModernToss · 23/01/2014 12:41

The photography is very weird. Sounds as if they think there's some action they can take.

(Many thanks for the link to the other thread, by the way, to several of you. It's a corker.)

merrymouse · 23/01/2014 12:42

The tenants do need to take action - against the landlord!

ChasedByBees · 23/01/2014 12:42

Chants: fence, fence, fence!

(Sorry OP, I'm getting carried away)

eurochick · 23/01/2014 12:45

What a great outcome.

Were they standing on your land to take the photos? If so, tell them they don't have permission to be there, they are trespassing and should get the hell off asap.

Slatecross · 23/01/2014 13:03

Moat! you need a moat! I'll start the digging off for you I'm so cross on your behalf!

zipzap · 23/01/2014 13:06

maybe you should say to the LA (ever so nicely of course) that if they continue to come onto your land without your permission that you feel it is both trespass and harassment. Which means that if they do continue to come on your land without permission then you will deal with that.

However, if they do need to come onto your land, then, as you are a reasonable person and have a thread on MN hanging on for the next update then if they have a reason to want to be on your land (such as legal action against the LL) then if they talk to you, and you are agreeable, then you will let them on your land and report back the next installment to MN.

Might get some more info from them too that way. Additionally - do you have a camera on your phone? Or one that you can keep handy? So that if you do see them on your land again, you can take a picture of them, for your reference obviously. And see how much they like having their picture taken!

shoom · 23/01/2014 13:09

PigletJohn advised a fence and signage directing enquiries to a solicitor ages ago, so I assume OP would have discussed this option with her solicitor. It would be interesting to know why this wasn't thought to be the best way. Maybe it's difficult for OP to park there while blocking the others. A sign saying "private land" might be useful now. Maybe it's worth a temporary fencing or bollard solution ahead of the eventual garden and parking though. It sound like at least one our two neighbours won't stop unless physically prevented.

zipzap · 23/01/2014 13:10

Oh and it also wouldn't hurt if your camera/phone takes video - if you go out to talk to them, record your conversations with people, particularly if you know that there are some tenants that get arsey when problems arise with 'their' parking.

I think you need to tell people that you are doing it - but hell, you could just be out there filming what your new bit of land is like before you start doing anything with it, to be able to look back and see the changes when your project finishes. But it also might mean that people don't get so aggressive if they know they are on record!

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