to feel pissed off with selfish 'baby boomer' generation

[hermionepotter]

this was in response to a newspaper article where people surveyed wanted interest rates to go up. I could be BU I know. But it won't be those paying massive mortgages and debts who'll be wanting rates to go up, will be older people wanting interest on their savings and sod everyone else. So am I BU?

No I'm fed up with them too. I know so many BB who own 2 large houses. No wonder younger people can't afford housing. They have to line BB landlords pockets. It's depressing.

Janey no one can blame BB on an individual basis- of course we'd all snap up their opportunities! Doesn't mean they're not causing a mess.

Wouldn't it make more sense if this thread was entitled 'AIBU to feel pissed off with selfish people who voted for Tory policies, in particular in the 1980s?' Rather than using 'baby boomers' as a inaccurate shortcut to that? Because there are plenty of young people who would happily vote for those policies right now, and plenty of baby boomers who never have agreed with them. We're talking about millions of people, after all.

(Not to mention the fact that there are plenty of young people now who are very happily not thinking of the future at all, and despite plenty of information all around them about climate change are not basing any of their voting or lifestyle decisions on that - I look forward to the threads about that in thirty years time talking about how selfish and shortsighted we are!)

I'm not a baby boomer so in a way it shouldn't matter to me, if people are generalising about them, but any discourse that blames problems on "what such and such generation did" just seems to me a bit lazy and pointless compared to getting into the nitty gritty of the policies and circumstances and memes that lead to particular situations.

janey the fact that you seem to think the only motivation for my OP could be envy says it all really. I'm genuinely concerned about the impact of a rise in interest rates for people mortgaged up to the eyeballs or paying massive rent unable to buy, who are hanging on by a thread. As far as I'm concerned there are many, not me as I have said.

As for what I'd do differently, I accept probably not much except not buying up buy-to-lets, not pressing for interest rates to go up when it's the younger generation who will mainly pay the price (as stated in my OP) and not expecting the government to subsidise retirement if I already have a pension and paid for home, nor expecting the government to pay for my parents' care home costs because I also want an 'inheritance' not criticising the younger generation's parenting/work choices/financial choices when I don't understand them or making out I worked harder rather than having been fortunate to some degree as well. In those regards I think there is at least a perceived element of 'selfishness' for younger people. I fully accept this is a massive generalisation and can't be applied to all people in a generation, of course not.

yes, good points ioughttobecosier

can I add that I live in the southeast and am inevitably basing this on people I see in this area and my own experience - this thread has reminded me there are massive regional variations as well

But the OP is blaming an entire generation for being inherently more selfish than other individuals, and yet provides no evidence for that at all

Maybe you could make the argument that due to demographics (boomers having always been a large or major political group throughout their lifetime), boomers have become so used to getting their way they have, as a generation, become more selfish than others before and since. Whilst boomers have frequently been able to drive social and political change in their lifetimes, maybe you could say today's young simply have the desired social and political change of others thrust upon them and this has made them resentful.

I've not done enough research to make this argument so please don't flame me for it, but I don't think you could dismiss it out of hand.

Wow that's some leap..

I sort of agree with delusion index - BB have an inflated view of there own importance when it comes to music, fashion, counterculture etc...My parents certainly do, even though they lived in deepest darkest Scotland you would think they singly handed started the 60's!! But that is based on a sample of 2. Maybe they feel guilty that there parents went to war and felt inferior!

"Wow that's some leap.."

I'll assume from your inability to articulate a counter-argument that you don't actually have one.

I'm not claiming to. I'm commenting on the fact that you put that forward as a hypthesis without any evidence whatsoever...

Blimey, I've seen some hateful, ignorant tosh on MN, but the 'BB' bashing on this thread just about tops it. Just look back in history to see what the repercussions of mindless hatred bred in fear are.

Well I suppose you could say that if you didn't mind the same argument being made against all sorts of other groups that have more power due to demographics or other circumstances - say, 'men', or 'white people'.

If you're saying people become inherently selfish as individuals, as a result of the group they are in having a more powerful voice (whether due to demographics or historical imbalances), then that must be true of those groups too - and surely more significant.

Being a baby boomer is going to be a relatively insignificant source of selfishness in an individual compared to the group-derived selfishness resulting from being, say, white, or a man, IF we buy the argument that being a member of a group with a more powerful voice somehow turns a person into a fundamentally more selfish person than they would be otherwise. I'm not sure I do buy that argument. I think it can make people more short-sighted and less aware of other perspectives but that's not the same thing as being more selfish.

"I'm not claiming to. I'm commenting on the fact that you put that forward as a hypthesis without any evidence whatsoever..."

So what? I specifically said it was just a possible argument, not that I have done a bunch of research to back it up. However I have heard plenty of times from boomers themselves about how their generation were responsible for changing this and that in society, so I think it's a fair assumption that they feel their opinions are listened to and have made a difference.

Would a young person today say their opinions are respected or make a difference to the government and society? Again I've no surveys to hand, but my personal oberservations suggest generally not. I struggle to think of any example of the current 18-30 age group being listened to on a political level. Look how quickly the police stamped out the tuition fees protests with their dubious kettling tactics.

Oh for goodness sake, how could delusion have evidence? It's an idea, an opinion.
And mindless hatred is a bit over dramatic.

It always strikes me as odd that if one were to hypothesise, without any basis, that a particular ethnic group or gender were intrinsically more selfish, it would be unacceptable.
Yet it's ok to say it about people born in a particular era...

nonmifairidere hateful? really? I certainly don't hate 'babyboomer' generation, I was saying I get a bit pissed off at the 'I'm alright Jack' mentality of some, that's all

Well I suppose you could say that if you didn't mind the same argument being made against all sorts of other groups that have more power due to demographics or other circumstances - say, 'men', or 'white people'.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't personally have a problem with accepting some things may be true despite not being politically correct.

That's clearly what we do though. The Victorians were frigid, the Vikings bloodthirsty, etc etc. It's social commentary.

It's nothing to do with 'politically correct' - I wasn't saying you wouldn't want that said about white people so you shouldn't say it about baby boomers!

What I said was that if it's true about baby boomers, then it must be true about these other groups. Do you feel it is true about those other groups? If you don't, then that casts doubt on the theory that it's true of baby boomers.

Today's young people and children will be worse off than their parents. This is the first time in modern history that this will be the case. It might be nice if many sixty somethings could acknowledge this.

Many baby boomers I know have final salary pensions (some retiring at 55), no mortgage or a tiny one (and are paying 1% in mortgage payments if they have one). They have numerous holidays a year, new cars and in some cases more than one house. They have free bus passes and winter fuel allowances that many do not actually need.

But Generation Y has other advantages which generation x didn't chunderella.

Sorry, not read the whole thread although I agree with Chunderella's latest post.

I think, OP, you have to focus on "real" interest rates ie interest rate less inflation. Generally this has been positive so that savers make a little money for lending to the bank, and borrowers pay a little for the privilege of borrowing.

So don't focus on the interest rate alone:

eg inflation of 18% and an interest rate of 15% would not be a bad thing for those with mortgages (provided their cash flow was alright) as their asset would be inflating more quickly than their debt..... so people throwing about absolute interest rate figures that they once paid are not illuminating the debate unless you know what inflation was at that time. Certainly interest rates were high in the 70's and 80's but house inflation was astronomical. That is when lots of people made large unearned gains on housing which is indeed luck of the draw seemingly.

The problem with the situation atm is that real interest rates are negative. This means that money is being effectively "stolen" from cash savers (or taxed, if you prefer), and given to borrowers. That can't be sustainable.