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AIBU?

to think my dB's ex is a total bitch????

186 replies

ginmakesitallok · 25/12/2013 23:07

dB and his ex been split up for about 2 years, she was abusive. She always been very awkward about letting him see his D's, and although we've advised him to take her to court to get access formally sorted out he hasn't. So, today, Christmas day and the bitch wouldn't let him see his son. Happy for him to play Santa, but not willing to let him see his son at all. Am so oooo stopping myself phoning her and telling her what I think of her. It's killing him. How can anyone be so cruel????

OP posts:

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BoneyBackJefferson · 30/12/2013 18:05

Lweji

I have read it and there are holes in the descriptions or reasons for withholding access.

I would like to see much more of a breakdown in percentages of each section linking to gender, more research in to "parental conflicts".

I realise that it is a document highlighting the key points and was fully published in 2013.

"I don't know. I think it's likely, or probable."
so it is just supposition based on gut feelings? or a possible bias

Lweji · 30/12/2013 18:12

so it is just supposition based on gut feelings? or a possible bias

As is claiming that there are no convictions in court without looking for actual evidence.

BoneyBackJefferson · 30/12/2013 19:27

there have been to my knowledge no convictions in court, your link talks about sanctions, which may be the same thing but is not explained.

so there are 215 (ish) cases where punitive measures where taken out of 1400 (ish).

neither does the study say whether the sanctions where effective.

It also doesn't say how many cases are caught up in mediation.

fifi669 · 30/12/2013 20:35

DP would love custody. My friend caught in a contact dispute would love custody. To make assumptions based on nothing is ridiculous. I'm sure not all fathers feel the same way, but a lot will.

The problem isn't necessarily the law, but that the judges are still focusing on mother knows best and are too slow or too reluctant to hand out punishment got disobeying court orders.

Lweji · 30/12/2013 20:39

But that was not really the point, was it?

Fine if they sort it at mediation, but mediation still involves solicitors.

The point is that he can't just leave it to her, allowing his child and himself to suffer the consequences. He doesn't have to take her to court at this stage, but I do think he should sort it with her through a solicitor, (or a mediator, if she agrees) which is less emotionally charged than dealing directly with her. Eventually he might need to actually go to court.

The study posted showed that there are various ways in which the court deals with these cases, without necessarily involving punitive measures or prison.
No, it doesn't show all the data or outcomes, but we can't just say it doesn't work either based on a gut feeling, and lack of news on the papers.

A family solicitor is likely to be better placed to advise the OP's brother about the best course of action and the risks, based on the actual case and their experience in family courts. But he will have to at least consult one.

Lweji · 30/12/2013 20:39

Sorry, cross post was to Boney.

Lweji · 30/12/2013 20:40

Fifi, have they actually asked for custody, if they can't get any contact otherwise?

fifi669 · 30/12/2013 22:25

DP has had sporadic contact with his DD since they broke up when she was around 6 months old. He was able to see DD whenever including for the whole weekend while ex went on a hen do.... Then we got together and she stopped all contact. He did the recommended route of mediation. Got nowhere. Applied for legal aid, this was taking months.

New year she says fresh start. Few months contact building up time with DD now 1. She says she wants to get back together. He says no. She stops contact. Back to mediation. Back to applying for legal aid.... Relents just before Christmas. Build up contact again with DD now 2. Ex allows DD to meet me and DS (who DP has taken on as his own) this summer. Few months of this and then she says DD isn't allowed to see us anymore. DD is banned from seeing any of his friends/family. DP bumps into his sister weeks later and admits to ex they spoke to her. Stops contact. Family support worker this time.

Restarts contact at 45 minutes a week. DP gets to see her for her 3rd birthday, the first one ever. He's scared of not seeing her. Decides to hold out to Christmas as he doesn't want to miss that too.

He's currently got 2 1/2 hours a week. Each pick up and drop off is met with abuse. DD is talking negatively about me and DS when they meet and freely says it's because mummy said so. He knows he needs to go to court so she can have proper time with her dad.

With each mediator/support worker they've sided with ex. There has been no abuse of any sort and she hasn't alleged any. Yet anything she decides on he is helpless to go against. Eg at mediation he said it's not acceptable his family aren't allowed to see DD. Ex wouldn't budge. Mediator says do you want to see your daughter or not? Not even handed at all. He's scared the court will be the same and he'll lose what little he's got. He won't get custody as he hadn't had meaningful contact with his DD for most of her life. Not his fault, but DD would be happier with ex because of it.

My friend who has been refused contact IS applying for custody.

BoneyBackJefferson · 31/12/2013 10:49

"The point is that he can't just leave it to her, allowing his child and himself to suffer the consequences. He doesn't have to take her to court at this stage, but I do think he should sort it with her through a solicitor,"

If he is at that stage then that is the way he should go.

The problem with the study is that is just one study (having multiple studies would be much better).
The problem with the punitive measures is that they are not being applied.
The problem with mediation is that it is often used to restart the clock by resident parents who don't want their exes to see their children.

All I have to go on (like so many in here) is anecdotal evidence, if I go purely on MN it is almost always the NRP at fault, if I go by my own experiences outside of MN then it is much closer to 50/50.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 31/12/2013 12:10

Oh and anyone who wants 'custody' (residency) of a child who is already happy with the RP doesn't have the child's interests at heart.

fifi669 · 31/12/2013 12:27

I disagree in part. If the RP isn't allowing contact with the NRP and refuses to do so even after court intervention, then long term it's better that residence changes. The child has a right to see both it's parents. If one parent won't allow this, no matter if the child is happy, they don't have their best interests at heart and shouldn't have residence.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 31/12/2013 12:39

If they refuse to do so after Court intervention then they're breaching a Court order, can't you be held in contempt of Court for that? Someone going for 'custody' suggests that they're after sole care of a child which is not in the best interests of the child if they are happy and settled already. Shared care, perhaps, which doesn't need to be 50/50.

BoneyBackJefferson · 31/12/2013 12:47

the flip side to that Vampyre is what should happen when the child is unhappy with the RP?

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 31/12/2013 12:49

If that's the case, the NRP should absolutely go down the Court route, but someone wanting full residence of their child regardless just smacks of spitefulness.

Rufustherednosedreindeer · 31/12/2013 14:41

Agree a lot with boney and with fifis last post

fifi669 · 31/12/2013 14:54

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9424060/Fathers-rights-breached-by-mother-too-upset-to-let-him-see-children.html

There are so many cases where the NRP, normally the man is completely sidelined to accommodate the mother.

BillyBanter · 31/12/2013 15:08

She was emotionally abusive towards him, not to the kids. She's not an unfit parent. DB knows that taking ds from her would kill her, he doesn't want to do that.

Yes it was arranged he'd see ds in the morning before he went to work, she then decided that unless he spent all day he couldn't come in and wouldn't let him in the house.

She still thinks they'll get back together.

People who are abusive to their partners are not generally good parents. Denying her children access to their dad is not good parenting. It is abusive to them as well as to him. This is the same for abusive men or women. It is fairly typical for abused women to not want to deny their abusive ex access to the kids, or the kids access to their father even though their abusive nature is not good for the kids. IME abused fathers typically do not want to deny the abusive mother custody of the children because they have been trained to see the mother's hurt feelings as most important. I understand him feeling this way but really he should go for custody for their sake. Her welfare is no more his concern than a woman's should be for her ex abusive H.

It's not an easy path but he should go to court for custody or at least a big chunk of custody for his children's sake.

BillyBanter · 31/12/2013 15:11

If I was in a position to advice any man hoping to escape an abusive relationship with the mother of their children I would advice them not to leave without the children. We would never advise a mother to leave an abusive husband without taking her children.

BillyBanter · 31/12/2013 15:11

advise, not advice.

Lweji · 31/12/2013 15:11

Fifi, that is a good example of the father not giving up and the court ultimately ruling in his favour. Thanks. :)

And agreeing with BillyBanter.

fifi669 · 31/12/2013 15:38

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2524892/My-ending-anguish--father-rights.html#comments-2524892

If this isn't the system being a joke I don't know what is!

Lweji · 31/12/2013 16:14

It is sad, but it is still one dramatic case.
We don't hear about the ones where there are more satisfactory resolutions.
Then you had the previous one to balance it.

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fifi669 · 31/12/2013 16:35

I don't see being denied access for three years as a balancing story

BoneyBackJefferson · 31/12/2013 17:02

with the first story instead of praising the father, I have to ask what the fuck was the judge on and is he still in the family court system?

Lweji · 31/12/2013 17:13

The court system always takes time, but the dad got the result he wanted.

There will also be a few mums in somewhat similar circumstances. Sometimes we hear about them here. There are cases where children are being abused by their fathers and the court still enforces contact, and the mother is afraid of breaching contact. The world is not perfect. It does not mean that we should avoid the courts, or that they never work.

Evidence is about numbers, just not a case in a newspaper.

It still stands that if the informal path is not working, then the OP's brother should go the legal route.

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