to think a reference should mean exactly that - not a list of dates

[glasgowsteven]

Inspiration taken from another thread...

But with most/all large companies now scared/unwilling to give more than

Name, dates employed, position.

Very few will give anymore than what is called a basic disclosure reference, as they do not want anything postive or negative to be taken from what was written or implied....

Should there be a facility in some way for a good reference to be given.

If someone is sacked gross misconudct, theft say, a reference may not even show that

YANBU. It makes you wonder why we bother nowadays.

In my field, in Scotland and the north of england, there is a fairly small number of companies/ recruiters and reputation is important, but generally....

In the industry I work in, most people know each other and my current employer didn't even seek a reference. I know what you mean though, it does rather defeat the point if there's no information bar the basic facts.

I am not allowed to write references anymore, have to go through HR and they are pretty pointless.

I'm not sure actually. I've known so many people over the years who say that they are happy to give a good reference to a nightmare employee to make sure that they get rid of them, and a bad reference to a great employee because they don't want to lose them, that Ibthink references are essentially worthless.

They do seem pointless, although would highlight an obvious untruth in a CV - eg someone says they were a senior lawyer for five years and the reference says junior post room for eight months.

We don't give them either, to be honest. Too much potential for legal ramifications.

However, you can ask for more than one reference - doesn't have to be their current boss. Much more likely to get a fair look if the person isn't doing it in an official capacity. Also, we take references over the phone - if it's not written down, people are happier to reveal things.

Is this not why some employers phone a referee?

So they can get a more frank discussion that is not recorded in black and white?

I know this happens in some sectors.

have a frank discussion! not "get".

Oops!

Sorry Prozac!

You said that already

Most employers prefer not to get sued, funny, isn't it?

Didn't some employers get sued for defamation hence the name, rank and number type of reference becoming common.

No such thing as a good/ bad reference just an honest one.

As long as the reference is true & any negative points are backed up with proof of action taken to draw the employees attention to it & re-training/ counselling to try & improve things then there is no need to be worried about references.

I once had one that merely said
"Miss X is an entirely adequate nursery nurse"

I rang the employer who said she would be happy to chat to me off record & basically confirmed what I suspected at interview, that the girl was being over optimistic of her abilities!!!

I was told once the reason for neither good nor bad is because how they seemed with you doesn't necessarily reflect how they will be with the new company and they don't want to risk having their name tied to that employee if it doesn't work out...

My previous job here in the US didn't end well. I was hired through an agency and I quit because I was being discriminated against because of my accent (they did a good job of trying to hide that fact in any written communication though, such are people in that field). It didn't matter to the agency that I had called them multiple times to complain about the treatment, they didn't want me to leave the employer in the lurch by giving notice so after a particularly bad incident I quit (not in a big bad way, just went to the boss at the end of the day, handed over any work property and said I wouldn't be back on Monday... no shock to him honestly). They refused to give a good review because I didn't give enough notice (even though none is required in a temp position)...

On the basis of my last job alone I was glad it's only supposed to confirm that I did work there and nothing else was said. I can always write down a past employer or colleague as a referee though...

The MoD has a collection of annual reports on officers written in days when you could be more imaginitive than you can now:

Captain X has discharged his duties to his entire satisfaction.

I understand that Lieutenant Y comes from a rural background. He is depriving a village of its idiot.