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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To want to know where my 6 year old will be staying for Christmas?

22 replies

SignoraStronza · 18/12/2013 20:32

When I escaped my abusive ex and came back to the UK, I eventually agreed a proper contact/residence order with him as I had worries about sending her to stay with him abroad.

One of the arrangements is alternate Christmases spent with him in his country of origin. This was a different country to that in which he lived in at the time and dd always had to stay with him at his parents' place. This was not ideal - she hates staying there, as his parents shout and squawk, speak no discernable language (not that of his country they've been living in for the last 50 years nor of the one they come from, nor any English - only the dialect of the tiny mountain village they hail from), argue and the atmosphere there is just horrendous. His mother feeds her crap and she comes back several kilos overweight, pale and bloated too.

So, you can imagine how pleased I was that after a period of living and working in the UK (where he sofa surfed, so she was unable to stay with him here either), he returned to his home country and is now living with his sister, who at least is vaguely normal.

Dc will be staying with them, but despite repeated requests, he refuses to give me their address in case of emergency. This is especially important as he usually refuses to pick up his phone. He and his sister live in a town about 40 minutes away from his parents' town and, while I have their contact details, they would be absolutely useless in an emergency.

So am I being unreasonable in wishing to know where she will be?

OP posts:

Wearyworker · 18/12/2013 20:35

No, I would want to know where my DC were staying :(
I don't know that I'd be handing them over without the details for emergencies, good luck

SirChenjin · 18/12/2013 20:38

No - YANBU. I have no clue as to what you can do about this - hopefully someone who is more knowledgeable will be along soon, but I would not want to hand over my 6 year old to someone abroad without knowing their address

IneedAsockamnesty · 18/12/2013 20:39

In a little while this thread will fill up with people saying why would an emergency matter it won't make a difference, he's her dad he has to tell you nothing blah blah blah blah

Often these posters who say this are the ones who show up on threads with a mum saying she with holds the address to tell her she's shocking and blah blah blah

I disagree and think yanbu

IneedAsockamnesty · 18/12/2013 20:41

Fwiw did the contact get as far as court order?

Are things like where she stays during contact or him providing you with details written in?

How likely is he to attempt to get this order enforced for a one off visit?

FortyDoorsToNowhere · 18/12/2013 20:42

no address then my child will not be going.

TheMuppetsSingChristmas · 18/12/2013 20:43

No address, no trip.

Original poster

SignoraStronza · 18/12/2013 21:41

Thanks. I did wonder if I was making a mountain of of a molehill. The contract order is Court stamped but we came to an agreement shortly before the Court date, so it never went that far. I seriously regret it now, as it means that the details of his abusive behaviour are not a matter of public record. I think it is her grandparents' place that is specifically mentioned in the order, although no actual address.

I can sort of communicate with his parents as I speak their country's language reasonablly fluently. However, like him, they don't actually listen! They reply to me in dialect, which is not something I can speak or understand and have a tendency to shout and flap. His father is a nasty, belligerent gnome, whose moods are pervasive and he and ex always manage a yelling match whenever ex leaves, which is quite distressing for dd to witness, as well as ex's subsequent storming down the stairs from their flat and driving off like am angry loon. Oh the memories.

My parents will be doing handover and they will put their foot down on my behalf if he hasn't provided me with proper contact details by then. I can communicate reasonably well with his sister. We're fb friends (although she hasn't responded to my friendly request for her address) and we have two languages in common.

I just don't understand why something as simple as an address should be so top secret. The only thing I can think of is that he's worried I might come after him for the maintenance he has unilaterally decided to reduce now he's out of csa jurisdiction. Because with him is always been about the money.

OP posts:

Chippednailvarnish · 18/12/2013 21:43

I wouldn't be letting her go.

Original poster

SignoraStronza · 18/12/2013 21:45

He's unlikely to attempt to get the order enforced as it will cost money. It also specifies 3 nights, whereas I have stupidly acquiesced to a week.

OP posts:

IneedAsockamnesty · 19/12/2013 00:15

I wouldn't even let them show up for hand over unless I had the details prior to them leaving to hand her over.

jacks365 · 19/12/2013 00:41

I'm another who would refuse to let her go unless I knew exactly where she was. YANBU

blahe · 19/12/2013 06:30

I would be VERY wary of allowing this to happen. It is just another way of him trying to control you I would seek legal advise asap about not letting her go. The fact that you don't have a court order stating that she HAS to have contact means that you don't have to let her go at this stage.

OhMerGerd · 19/12/2013 07:00

As described YANBU and I'd not be letting my 6yo stop over anywhere if I didn't have details.
But a lot also depends on context here. Your parents are dropping off so do they live there too?
Where in the world is this, rural France or Pakistan? Big difference in your legal status and come back if things go wrong.
What languages does your DD speak, does she understand the dialect, do they even speak it to her and do they treat her like a princess (indulging her sweet tooth, feeding her treats etc because they don't see her very often)?

Your ex does sound a right arse and the family set up may not be ideal but those liv

OhMerGerd · 19/12/2013 07:02

Sorry post too soon,

Living arrangements sound fairly typical outside UK in Europe and wider.

So long as DD is safe, well fed, and clean this is her family too.

Roshbegosh · 19/12/2013 07:05

See a lawyer as a matter of urgency. Don't let her go and sort this out for the future.

Rosa · 19/12/2013 07:07

I would insist on having an address and also phone contact so you can speak to them , maybe an agreed time lr something. I take it he can call them when he wants. can you not reduce the time to 3 days or threaten to do so uness you get an address.
Loving you name OP- Auguri,

Butterytoast · 19/12/2013 07:11

I wouldn't send her. No address and contact number which I can verify before hand = no contact IMO

Dollslikeyouandme · 19/12/2013 07:11

If they're as bad as you say, then I wouldn't be letting her go at all.

usernameunknown · 19/12/2013 07:25

I'm not sure how an address would help if you needed to get hold of her in an emergency.

But that aside YANBU to want to know where she will be staying. Can you not contact his sister and ask her?

BohemianGirl · 19/12/2013 07:26

My child wouldnt be going to a third world remote mountain village any where. Without you disclosing the nationality - any chance of her being married off whilst shes there? What are the laws like on mothers rights? are there reciprochal agreements with the UK?

OhMerGerd · 19/12/2013 07:40

Bohemian .. Is it a 'third world country' though? Could be France? Or Germany or Italy or any where in Europe apart from Holland or Belgium which are a bit flat. They have mountain villages and people who speak dialects and eat rich food and are what some of us Brits might call 'continental temperaments'.

Lets not let our own cultural prejudice cloud our judgement and advice to OP. Agree that 6 is too young to be sent off without mum knowing address but as her parents will be not far away and paternal grandparents/ family for all their flaws look after OP DD she will want to find a way that allows her child the opportunity to have a relationship with them.

Now if there is suspicion that abduction or abuse is likely she needs to get to court ASAP but it is no help to any one you ratcheting up the hate or adding in elements that may not be remotely relevant.

Original poster

SignoraStronza · 19/12/2013 23:26

No, it isn't a third world country at all. Neither is the one that his parents emigrated from (both EU) - although it pretty much was during the years after WW2 and arguably still is in parts and I do try to bear this in mind when I speak of them.

This doesn't change the fact that ex's family are seriously dysfunctional and batshit crazy though! I guess I'm not too worried about abduction so much as what would happen in an emergency. His mother does not actually know how to operate a telephone (I kid you not) and would not be able to hold a coherent conversation if she did!

Thankfully, after much hassle, I finally have the address now.

OP posts:

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