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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to want my child's teacher to understand how apostrophes work!!!

378 replies

intothenever · 15/12/2013 16:44

DD is writing things like 'She live's in a house' and has been taught that the plural of potato is potato's! I am getting really pissed off!

OP posts:
LaQueenAnd3KingsOfOrientAre · 16/12/2013 17:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 16/12/2013 17:52

Natch Smile.

JohnnyBarthes · 16/12/2013 17:56

What's a comma splice?

JohnnyBarthes · 16/12/2013 17:58

OK I Googled. I think I comma splice all the time - but it doesn't seem wrong!

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 16/12/2013 17:59

I think most people do! It's one of my most common comments on student work!

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine · 16/12/2013 18:01

A comma splice is something like

"I saw a poster called JohnnyBarthes on Mumsnet, she sounded really nice."

It should be

"I saw a poster called JohnnyBarthes on Mumsnet. She sounded really nice."

or

"I saw a poster called JohnnyBarthes on Mumsnet; she sounded really nice."

CalamityKate · 16/12/2013 18:03

Is that the same as a run on sentence?

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine · 16/12/2013 18:04

At the end of Reception DD1's description of the moral of a story was "You's you'r brane all time evene wen you'r awaye from shcoll."

In Y1 she still has a tendency to sprinkle apostrophes liberally over her writing; I'm reasonably certain that this isn't being encouraged by the teachers in her case, though.

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine · 16/12/2013 18:05

I think a comma splice can be considered a subset of a run-on sentence, Kate. Your classic run-on sentence would be "I saw a poster called JohnnyBarthes on Mumsnet she sounded really nice."

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 16/12/2013 18:06

I seem to remember a teacher once saying that at a certain stage some children do go a bit mad on the apostrophes and bung them in anywhere there's an s, but they get over it!

DorothyParker1 · 16/12/2013 18:15

I understand re. the poster who said it can actually be harder than you think to explain terms like "noun". But in this lesson that wasn't the problem. Really was a clear and complete lack of understanding on the part of the teacher.

As to the literacy tests, it really is absurd. People literally complaining that their vocation has been heartlessly snatched from them because they aren't allowed to do endless retakes of a test hat requires you to put full stops in the right place...

JohnnyBarthes · 16/12/2013 18:21

Hmm. Maybe I don't do it as often as I thought. I don't ever remember being taught about comma splicing though; I must have just picked it up.

I do think I overuse semicolons though.

YouTheCat · 16/12/2013 18:23

I think anyone who has failed to achieve a basic level of literacy and numeracy shouldn't be given a place on a teaching course at all.

There is plenty of competition for places as it is.

DorothyParker1 · 16/12/2013 18:34

Yeah fully agree, youthecat. Problem is, there actually aren't enough teachers in a number of subjects at secondary school level. It needs to be made more attractive as a job in order to attract enough, better calibre applicants.

DorothyParker1 · 16/12/2013 18:34

Fully agree with the first bit that is.

phantomnamechanger · 16/12/2013 18:35

I could sort of sympathise with an inexperienced teacher not knowing how to explain at an appropriate level what an adverb or something was, or getting mixed up about what was the subject /object in a sentence - but surely a noun is easy enough to describe ie "it's a word that is the name of an object like a table or ball, or a proper noun is a name of a place or person, eg Sam or London, and has a capital letter".

OP - have you told us yet what the actual sentence was in which potatoes was incorrectly corrected. I can think of sentences which might be ambiguous, ie not be clear to the reader whether the writer meant potatoes, potatoes' or potato's. May it be a genuine misunderstanding???

storynanny · 16/12/2013 18:38

Youthecat, absolutely. I believe that from this year prospective new teachers have to pass the tests before they commence their teacher training. Up to last year they could take them up to 3 times during the PGCE year I believe.
However, just as an aside, online quick fire questions may make some perfectly literate and numerate candidates panic and may not be a true reflection of their ability.
I am definitely not making excuses for them though.
It is quite simple, if an adult is not able to use basic literacy and numeracy correctly, they should not be responsible for teaching our children.
Sadly, I see quite a few basic errors on my supply teaching journeys.

storynanny · 16/12/2013 18:40

.. Hoping I haven't made any errors in my posts! iPad to blame if so.......haha

JohnnyBarthes · 16/12/2013 18:46

There are some brilliant teachers who are dyslexic or just not terribly good at grammar. That's ok surely for secondary science or maths - I'd rather we kept them than drive them away from the profession.

SantasSisterdoesallthepresents · 16/12/2013 19:01

I think if you choose to post on an internet site, writing about your problems, you are probably highly literate. Your children, too, are destined to be highly literate. However, there are huge swathes of people who are unlikely to become this impressive on paper. Yes, partly, it is down to poor teaching, partly ability, often poor home support for literacy. Some houses really don't have books, or papers. Some children really do play computer games for hours every night.

Teachers should not have poor punctuation and grammar. However, you can't correct every mistake because, in some cases, you will stop them from writing fluently and with enthusiasm. It is better (Secondary) for them to write, say, 800 words and make a dozen mistakes rather than feel terrible and write 100 so as to make none. I have seen the results of over zealous correcting by primary colleagues, often with the best intentions and, believe me, it is children (often boys) who just won't write - meaning they cannot really pass any exams.

Yes, correct the teacher. Yes, moan about her / his poor skills. But marking should be specific and targeted to bring about improvement - it is not about the teacher showing off superior SPAG skills.

YouTheCat · 16/12/2013 19:03

I'm mildly dyslexic and I manage. Most of the dyslexic children that I teach also manage well enough and would know that 'potatoes' doesn't require an apostrophe.

In science and maths teachers need to be able to explain clearly and so a basic level of skill is very important.

YouTheCat · 16/12/2013 19:05

But, Santa, the teacher corrected something that wasn't incorrect. The teacher was utterly wrong about a very basic point of grammar.

ILoveRacnoss · 16/12/2013 19:12

Some children in my class like to scatter apostrophes like confetti, despite my best efforts. Present tense verbs seem to attract them. The teacher scream's in frustration.

My favourite at the moment is the child who has suddenly decided that they must put a comma at the end of every line on their page.

SantasSisterdoesallthepresents · 16/12/2013 19:14

Agreed, Youthecat, and the teacher should be shot, or humiliated. That is unforgivable. But, up the thread, people were arguing teachers should correct every single mistake, and I was disputing that.

Hulababy · 16/12/2013 19:15

Why do people always want to blame the poor TAs for grammar and spelling mistakes?!?!

My spelling and grammar, including my use of the apostrophe, is often far better than the younger teachers I work alongside. That is because I was taught grammar at school in some detail, whereas many of the younger teachers went through the system when it was not taught so well.