To think capping child tax credits at two children will plunge more families into poverty

[SoonToBeSix]

Can't link but article is in the Daily Fail. A Tory mp has proposed capping child benefit and child tax credits at two children in order to win votes.
What happens to those children whose parents circumstances change ie redundancy or there is a contraception failure?
This government is taking welfare cuts too far while continuing to let the very rich avoid paying the correct taxes.

Do you honestly think people will limit their family size I 1000% dont think they will

But people who work and don't rely on the extra benefits have to limit their family, so why can't people who do?

It's an issue of people taking responsibility for themselves and their children.

• why I said I wouldn't be surprised. Not "suspect"

Well I've posted somewhere suggesting clinics to take the excess kids too like they have for dogs. because taking them into care would mean that the "hard working taxpayers" would still be supporting them.

Some people wont stop regardless of any cuts.

I think a cap is reasonable in some cases. I have not read the whole thread, cos meant to be tidying lol, so not sure how/ what others have said as of yet.

I have a OH but we don't live together and as such, although we do contribute to paying rent/ct as well as the other bills, I do also have help by way of top ups from HB/CTS and at the moment Income support. I am looking for work as at my last Work Focussed Interview me and my Support Officer sat down and worked out that with just 16 hours paid work I would be roughly better off by £76 a week than if I stayed on benefits. Full time they said I would still be £70-£80 better off every week.

I went to an interview the other day for a paid role, as am currently volunteering full time at a nursery and there were 25 people in the waiting room where they were interviewing, so not holding out much hope, but you never know!

I know a of couple of people who have had children for the wrong reasons (more money ect), but there are also a lot of people who are caught in the trap of being made redundant, ending up on benefits, finding it difficult to get a job, and realizing you are getting more benefit money than you would be otherwise, and that is a flaw that needs to be fixed. I also think people are having more babies than they can afford because the benefit system allows that, and that also needs to be fixed.

But if a person or couple wants to have more babies, then that is up to them and they should make sure that they can afford that strain on their income- because it is a lot of money to have a baby.

Case in point- I want to have #3 but its not the right time for us financially, being as only one job supports us, the house I am living in is perfect for me and the two girls, but if OH moved in it would be too small and there is no room for another baby, and I want to be in a secure- well as secure as you can get- job before I even consider talking to OH about thinking about trying... Here I am making a smart choice (which I didn't do with my other two, as they weren't planned).

Did any of that make sense?

Sorry for being rambly, I just wanted to share my 10 cents worth now to finish tidy up and then and

then this proposal will affect very few people, so where's the problem?

You are missing the point spectacularly!

This proposal is being suggested because of very few, but will affect millions.

That's worrying. We cannot start a precedent of passing policies that are only justified by the actions of a tiny minority, because they fit in with one partys ideals.

There is nothing I would rather have my taxes spent on than ensuring the nation's children are fed, clothed and housed.
Nothing.

Some people wont stop regardless of any cuts

I'm sure you're right, but it doesn't mean the country should be responsible for their mistakes.

I know this creates a whole new problem, protecting children, but at what point is the line drawn on who is responsible?

A system that calculates whether people can claim for a third child on such minutiae as conception dates is going to be a very expensive bureaucracy.

Iain Duncan Smith is among us, and lobbying for his next opportunity to fuck up!

Here I am making a smart choice

Err, no. There you are claiming benefits fraudulently as a single parent when infact you have a partner who you would like more kids with.

So what do you suggest for the children baubles?

My partner is down on all the forms in the partners sections, he has signed every one of them and all parties are aware I am in a relationship.

and I said I would like more children In the future when I am better off financially

If people have more children than they can afford and carry on knowing full well about the cuts and they cant afford it, then that is horrific! THEY will be the ones putting their families not the gvmt and tax payers!

How is it fraudulent if both the DWP, HM Revenue and Customs and all other parties know about it?

I have never said I am a Lone parent, we just live separately and he works pt.

Twinkles you said your dp contributes financially though which is fraud.

TwinklesTheXmasFairy Imagine if you get to the point where you can afford to have another child and you do so and THEN disaster strikes. Suddenly you are too poor to feed them. Will you be ok with not getting any help for the extra one?

Custardo
Sorry but you are wrong I would say that 100% of people who have two or more children claim child benefits which is what we're talking about here

I think child benefit is like a 97% take up rate which is very wrong
I get child benefit don't get anything else only have two children

However when we sat down to have children what we didn't do is calculate CB we figured out how many children we could afford on the lowest wage which is mine we can afford two children on my wage so if anything happened to oh he left or got sacked that's it so we have also took steps to ensure we don't have any more children

If I had a accident we would have to ask for a hand out from the tax payer and we would completely understand and expect the tax payer to be furious and not want to fund us.

"I have never said I am a Lone parent, we just live separately"

Which makes you a Lone Parent.

annie

I don't pretend to know all the answers, but what we need is for parents to take back responsibility of their own bodies, their children and their finances.

It has gone on far too long that some people can keep having children, knowing they will get an increased income to facilitate this.

It is all about attitudes. People on here have said they can't afford to have another child, so haven't. This is the attitude that needs to be widespread. It is never going to happen if we continue the way we are going.

It is absolutely impossible to create a system that will work, because the innocent parties (in this case the children) are the ones that will suffer. I have absolutely no qualms at all with taxes going to families who are struggling; but what do we do as a country when it's been royally taken advantage of?

My problem is that people are continually taking responsibility away from the parents, including saying things like 'well they wont stop'. It's this that is protecting them, that is facilitating the abuse of the system.

My apologies of you are claiming Income Support due to a disability.

Your post doesn't read that way though, and you would only qualify for IS as a lone parent otherwise.

Baubles - Since the beginning of time people having been having children they cant afford except in this day and age society cares for the children.

I suppose the main question in all this is who can actually afford to have children then?
There are 2 parent families working, sp working, one parent working and a sahp all working families receiving benefit.
There are both parents working and receiving subsidised childcare.
Nobody can afford to have children because there are people from all walks of life not fully supporting their dc.

I also have to say I am pretty much immune now to being emotionally black mailed people being inflammatory

Oh if we don't give over the benefits children will starve

Is that not for the parents to think of before the event also I say again

if you need the government to give you £17 a week so your children don't starve to death you can't afford children

CB comes in hand however if it were removed from us tomorrow our children would not be dressed in sacks and begging on the street like Oliver.

Because we calculated the amount of children we can afford with out the government/taxpayer funding us

Baubles Spot on!!! We cant afford more children so we dont, its not difficult

Since the beginning of time people having been having children they cant afford except in this day and age society cares for the children

Well perhaps it's time it stopped Just because it's happened since 'the beginning of time' doesn't mean it is correct.

At the 'beginning of time' contraceptive methods weren't as good as they are now, people weren't educated and finding work was even harder. Forced sex was even more prevalent and children often died young.

In a lot of cases women were distraught to find they were pregnant. There were mercy killings FGS. Here we are talking about being planning their families on the basis of their benefits

Comparing now to then is a moot point.