To wonder why people give gifts to paid staff and not volunteers?

[CaterpillarCara]

It is the Christmas season and all the teacher gift collections are apace.
I actually am not anti- giving things to teachers, I think they work very hard and give a lot of themselves.

But Thursday night was our end of year Scout event. Our Scout troop is lucky to have a bunch of extremely hard-working volunteers. The children have a phenomenal time. Did anyone give them a thank you or a gift? (beside me, that is). No.

They are largely the same families as at school. So income, culture, etc, do not explain it.

Why, if you are giving to the people PAID to help your children, would you not give to the people who do it for FREE?

I would really like to either understand so do please explain!

I agree with you. I don't understand it either!

I don't get it either! YANBU

Honestly, I gave the tiniest little gifts (just over £1 each) but did make a big effort to personalise the thank you messages in the cards. The leaders were so touched I have had thank you emails and texts plus hugs as I left. Seems a shame, almost, that they are so grateful - suggests they are not used to being thanked which seems really sad.

I always mean to get things for DD's Rainbows leaders, but they tend to finish a week before the end of term, and it catches me by surprise so haven't managed to prepare anything. Same with ballet and gym actually, only the swimming teacher gets anything as they carry on right to the end of term.

I used to get random bits and bobs when I was involved with younger kids (Beaver Scouts) but now most of my Guides are in secondary school so parents don't think of it any more. Unfortunately many of my Guides' parents are not engaged with us, we're just cheap childcare. I don't think some of them even realise we're volunteers.

I ran Guides and Rainbows for years, one family bought me a small present every year for Christmas and another at the end of the academic year. I also got one present for the baby when I left for maternity leave. I didn't expect any presents at all but was very touched when people did give them.

I always gave to dd1's Brown Owl (I ran the Rainbow unit she went to so didn't bother with buying myself a present) but dd1 decided herself that she didn't want to give anything to her guide leader after the first year because nobody else did and it was embarrassing. We don't give anything to teachers either now she's in Secondary.

I imagine that people give to teachers and not to people who run extra clubs because the child is with the teacher for a lot of their waking life but only at Brownies or similar for a couple of hours a week, so that adult doesn't have as much impact on their lives.

We always buy for football coaches who have a very thankless job.

As for school volunteers I don't always know who they are.

School volunteers I understand, as how would you know who they were and where would you stop. It was more the Scout type volunteers. Ours work so hard. Some of our young Scouts (only just ten) just got their 35 nights away badges - that is a lot of nights under canvas that the leaders have provided...

I've done quite well then, having received two boxes of chocolates, a bottle of wine, and something else (not opened it yet). And I got flowers in the summer. I'm a Brownie leader though; maybe I wouldn't do so well as a Guide leader.

Yes teachers are paid. But many teachers also do a great deal of unpaid work and overtime.

Hmm. I do give stuff to brownie leaders usually - I missed the opportunity this year as the last session before Christmas was unexpectedly cancelled, but I gave a gift to "brown owl" just recently to thank her for taking dd on a sleepover.

I am enormously grateful to volunteers like this who give up their own time to do stuff with other people's kids. They don't have to do it, and they contribute a great deal. However, their contribution is not comparable in my view to that of a good teacher. Teachers are a huge influence on our DCs' lives, especially at primary age. Yes, they are paid for what they do, but many go way above and beyond their basic contractual requirements. I'm willing to wager that my dd's current teacher does a lot more unpaid overtime each week than our Brownie leaders do voluntary work, and the impact of what she does is far greater.

So yes, I think it's lovely to acknowledge all of the people who help our DC in different ways, but for me, the priority will always be the teacher (assuming they're any good!) as this is a key relationship in my dd's life.

I've bought presents for my dds teachers and also little gifts for the TA's. However I volunteer in the school myself, I do a couple of hours most mornings, this week I've been in nearly two full days helping out with Christmas stuff and I would be utterly bemused if anyone gave me a present! Chuffed, but a bit surprised. I don't see my contribution as anything like what a teacher and a TA have to deal with.

I agree with you - always strikes me as odd (speaking as both a teacher and a Scouter ).
Like you say, it's not about spending a lot, it's the effort to say thank you - goes a long way.

I'm an assistant Brownie Leader and there's a lot that goes on beyond the hour and a half of a pack night to make a unit work.

Behind the scenes this week in our unit, there's been routine admin and accounting, resending information to parents that they should have already as it was sent a week earlier, arranging final details for our guest at pack night for next week, a trip at the weekend, going to a venue for a reccy for a future Area event, final admin and details for the trip, paperwork for future trips (a few in the pipeline as it's the Big Brownie Birthday in 2014, with a lot of large special events). We've got a great team and delegate well across it, but to provide a high quality programme in our unit, that takes a lot of time from several leaders behind the scenes.

Trips and residentials take a lot of planning. Equipment needs storing (usually in a leaders garage as venues don't have enough beyond basic routine craft material) and maintaining. There's planning, and District meetings. Training, both routine and additional qualifications like pack holiday. Fundraising (yes, giving up an entire weekend to stand at the til of a supermarket, or setting up stalls at community events).

A good unit doesn't just turn up, play some games and do a craft each week. The majority of a Guider's time is behind the scenes.

Most girls in our pack stay for 3-4 years, so they know the leaders over a long time. They get the chance to stay weekends with us. Our relationship has more time and informality to develop than a pupil teacher relationship. Our girls leave the unit with so much more confidence than when they joined as they get chance to try new things and learn about themselves, their community and world in a social and informal way- the parts of the school curriculum that get squeezed out.

In return we tend to get some Christmas cards, verbal thankyous, Brown Owl occasionally gets a leaving present. I have a mug which I treasure, because it's been my only gift in 5+ years from a girl leaving. Sadly we get just as much flack as thanks, usually over trivial things that get blown out of proportion.

We volunteer. It costs us heavily in time and expenses don't cover the petrol here, the paper there, that phonecall, printing ink..., so it does have some financial cost. We have to make bookings with our own money before the unit can pay us back (due to payment method restrictions). I haven't had a child-free weekend since DS1 was born, as the the few weekends I've had without my children have been with the Brownies (I never quite get the girly weekend thing right ) I can not do it without the support and good-will of my husband in the back-ground- many leaders are in the same position.

Not necessarily presents, but thank you really goes a long way for voluntary leaders.

I expect if scout leaders had your children for 30 hours a week for 40 weeks a year then it's more likely you would think of a gift for them! I used to give a leaving present to leaders etc when my children left but never gave a thought at Christmas time.

I think it is perhaps because the parents don't spend much time together as a group. The football manager and trainers always got a present probably because the parents stay for the match every week and chat and bond a bit when standing in mud and rain! There was a suitable time to do it- the awards day at the end if season and would have been odd not to have a collection and a thank you.
Other organisations, like Scouts, is more drop and run- some don't even get out of the car! Even if someone were to do a collection it would be difficult to catch everyone. There can also be lots of people to buy a present for. At school I always did the TA, but most stuck with the teacher. With something like Brownies you have Brown Owl but it would be unfair to give to her and not her assistant and other helpers who give their time every week. A joint box if chocs isn't really suitable as they are only there for a short time, don't have time to eat them and have either just had a meal or are going home for a meal.
I am not saying this is 'right', just explaining why. It is however a shame that more people can't do a simple thank you, which costs nothing.

Ds3 is at beavers. I gave a gift at the end off the summer term and money towards a gift for a retiring leader however it does not equate with school.

Beavers is 1 hour a week approximately 30 x a year. He is with his teacher and classroom assistants for almost this amount of time each week. He spends more time with them than he does with anyone else except me and they play a huge part in his life.

I am sure that Beaver leaders etc would rather that you volunteered to help once a term than gave a present.

I don't give gifts automatically, I give them to people who have helped and supported my children. So I've always given the Beavers/cubs/scouts/Explorers leaders significant thank yous, because my DS has AS and they have all bent over backwards to be as inclusive as they possibly could be. For years.

^^what satin sandals said.......as a Cub leader, yes I'd much rather parents came and helped out once a term. chocolate is nice too though

I give to our cub leaders - I know the amount of work it takes to organise 3 overnight trips a year, one I've night in the hut...countless events throughout the year. They provide quality activities and they do a great job and I am very grateful. All the adults are required to help out once a term and on an adhoc basis and they rarely have to ask twice. I gave them gifts with pleasure and a real sense of gratitude.

I don't always feel a huge sense of gratitude towards the teacher, many have done their job and no more, maybe a bit less but I've provided gifts because the dcs would have felt embarrassed not to, one teacher even displayed her gifts in the class for extra pressure!

As a brown owl, in an average week i probably put in two or three nights for guiding. My DH spends two nights out as a scout leader and i am a scout occasional helper. Our summer holiday this year was a week on scout camp. We spend lots of weekends on pack holidays, sleepovers, camping, training, district/division events, maintenance days for the scout hut, fund raising. We enjoy it and have a large group of friends through our volunteering.

But the total amount of appreciation from parents through the year is about half a dozen thank you's, three Christmas cards, a pot of hand cream and a box of biscuits to share (we will have these at our planning meeting in January). We are hugely grateful for these. the second to last week of term, we did receive a public bollocking from a parent as she didn't return a form on time for her daughter to attend sleepover in January and now all the places are full. That really filled us with Christmas cheer.
Even if you don't fancy buying the volunteers in your dc's life a present, please take the time to thank them and acknowledge how much time they put in to make your child's life more interesting.

I would if I knew who they were. My son has two teachers, two teaching assistants and a host of total strangers who wander about looking like scruffy teenagers in ripped skater clothing, randoms off the street who don't introduce themselves and you only assume they're teachers because they're reading a picture book or arranging paint pots, and 'college volunteers' who are 16 or 17 and always look lost, standing near the walls in fear. Different faces every week. We aren't given their names, or told who they are, what they do, what their qualifications are and if our children are getting an education or just being babysat by strangers and local teens.

So, not feeling in a very gifty mood towards them really.

Athrodieth - I get that. Schools are hard to fathom sometimes.

I was just feeling that maybe some people under-estimate just how much work good Scout / Guide teams do. Or if they do appreciate it why don't they give thanks in any form. I am guessing by the extreme gratitude I got to my very palty gifts (with careful notes though) that receiving them was an unusual experience.

My son has only been a Scout one term (has been in the unit much longer) and some weeks there have been as many as three or four Scout events - church parades, five-a-side matches, venue visits, etc.

Those who say help would be good too, DH and I always do our very best, but so too do many parents actually, I would say it is not to bad for that - they train us up well on the Beaver roster .