To tell friend that I am very concerned about her emigrating to her husbands country?

[worriedfriend20]

I use the term friend reasonably loosely here, my Dh has been friends with her Dh for around 8 years, we see them every 10 days- 2 weeks either all together or just me and her as our children enjoy playing together. We chat but are not overly close.

For ease I will call her Sarah.

Sarah has told me this evening that her husband is visiting his home country (Iraq) next week for a week, this is his first visit in 4.5 years and he will only be staying for a week. The purpose of this trip is for him to take a certificate Sarah has gained though a distance learning course called 'Teaching a Foreign Language' to schools local to his family home to enquire if they would offer Sarah employment as an English teacher. They plan to move there mid next year to live with their 3 children who are now 5, 3 and under 1.

I have a number of concerns:

The city is a very unstable one, it is northern so not near to Baghdad/Basra but it is not in 'Iraqi Kurdistan' where it is a lot safer/ nicer/ less strict / better healthcare. It is around an hours drive (south) away from the Iraq- Iraqi Kurdistan border and has always been argued over by Kurds/Arabs/Turks and there are bomb blasts every few weeks which more often than not kill and injure a large number of people.

I am concerned that she will not actually be able to gain employment as I looked at this qualification which costs just £350 with no actual practical element and I asked my SIL who is a teacher in the same city to enquire with the head of the school and he said that he does not believe she can get a job with this alone, it could be a possibility with a degree in conjunction with this course (which Sarah does not have) I have not told her this.

Sarah has never visited Iraq, she only speaks the bare minimum of the Kurdish language for some reason her husband has not taught her , the children also can only greet people in Kurdish and will struggle and school (especially the oldest) as there is not the recourses to support language acquisition.

They are planning to live with the husbands family, My husband is from the same city, just as you enter it (slightly safer area in the scheme of things) But they live a few hours drive south as you exit and as it is less safe and people in the medical professions have been targeted by violence the health care is not that good, one thing which worries me about this is that the husband made a comment saying that his factory is going to start again (when Sarah was pg with the youngest child) referring to having more children- this was said in Kurdish which I think he forgets I can understand!. Sarah has been reluctant to have another baby as she with al 3 pregnancies has had varies problems, and I think that this may be a ploy to get her over there isolated unable to leave and when her contraceptives run out she would be unable to get more and end up pregnant in an area of the city which has no ob/gyn (the nearest is 1.5 hours away)

I also worry that the correct papers will not be applied for for an extended stay (comments by husband) and that if the family are pulled over by security (which is quite a common as there are a lot of security check points in the city) I will have severe consequences for Sarah.

I am very worried about her and her children AIBU to express this to her? And how can I do it with out causing offence?

Oh that was longer that I thought! Sorry

Until I got halfway through your post I was wondering how ypu knew so much about the situation / the country but as I see, your own DH is from there.

I have some questions
1 has Sarah said or indicated in any way that she doesnt want to do this?
2 have you any realy cause for concern over her husband and his motives?
3 surely you and your OH could one day be contemplating a move such as this, how would you feel if someone you knew and of whom shared the same sort of family set up, was, in the main, concerned rather than supportive of somethibg you actually wanted to do?

In some ways, given you are not that close as friends, you have nothing to lose. I would phrase it as- these are my concerns about my own family/situation/what I would worry about living there and see if she relates it to herself and leads into a discussion.

It sounds potentially dangerous for a western women out there with children not speaking the language.

Also- your post is extremely identifiable, if she's on here, she'll see it.

What is your principle concern?

You think her DH wants to get her pregnant without medical care, then again you think shes got a duff qualification and cant teach, then you think she wont have the right paperwork, then its a volatile area.

Whats the real problem?

i take it she knows all of this already. I would say she should go for a visit first though and do some research. as a friend who is also married to an Iraqi, then I'm surprised you haven't had these type of conversations already.

YANBU I believe you are right to have serious concerns. Get your friend to read "not without my daughter" I cant remember who wrote it but i an amazing true story of a woman who got trapped in Iran when her husband confiscated her passport after having a personality transplant when he returned to his own country. Her inlaws practically kept her a prisoner. If she and her dh were to fall out she could in all likelihood find herself unable to leave.

You can certainly express your concern, but you must also accept that she may not agree with you.

Thanks for the replies, first off I am quite sure she is not on here.

She has not said that she doesn't want to go but she strikes me as not one to go against what her husband decides I believe this stems from her converting to Islam about 1.5 years ago and in the religion it is pretty much that the husbands makes such choices and thats that.

The thing which concerns me about the husband is the comment about his factory starting again, her subsequent reluctance to have more children and then the decision to move. He also has never looked after the children alone (she is SAHM he works FT) even when he is off she doesn't get any off time so how will they roles suddenly reverse??

We have considered this move but not for they next 7/8 years dependant on the situation, however there large differences in the areas.

will be back off to do bath and bed

I'm not sure if you've asked the right person re likelihood of gaining tefl teaching in Iraq.
I would just ask how she plans to get contraception when she's out there when you're having the kids to play-I wouldn't mention your theory about her dh.
It will be difficult for the kids, as it is for kids that go to lots of places, but they'll be surrounded by extended family helping them learn the language-who I assume will be minding them if mum and dad will be working?
The stuff re documents is something your dh can mention to his friend?
The nature of the area - well people go home don't they? I wouldn't want to live there, you don't sound like you want to, but perhaps she does because it's her dh's home?
If you honestly think she's being co-erced/ misled then you need to speak up and be prepared to lose a minor friendship and royally piss your dh off, but it might be worth it if you believe it to be true. I think Mumsyblouse's advice is correct there-you've not that much to lose.

You think her DH wants to get her pregnant without medical care, then again you think shes got a duff qualification and cant teach, then you think she wont have the right paperwork, then its a volatile area.

Whats the real problem?

Well to me, all of these factors seem to be the problem. What's your point Bohemian?

I can see why this is worrying you worried. I think you just need to bite the bullet and talk to her about it. Can you find a moment to talk privately with her and maybe couch it as "I've considered this move a lot with my DH, but the things that concern me are..."?

OP if I'm correct on the city you're talking about I know just a little bit about conditions there. Quite apart from possible concerns re: power/autonomy in her marriage, it is a dangerous place to live right now. Yes, people live there. But they live there at considerable risk; real, daily risk. If I were from that country and already lived in that city, I might not leave, b/c it's emotionally and logistically complicated to leave one's home. But I wouldn't move there deliberately, even as a native, and I sure as hell wouldn't move my children there.

I can imagine my husband and I agreeing that we wanted to move to be with his family. But if moving to be with his family meant moving into a really dangerous area, we would at least make those plans contingent on conditions improving. Are there urgent reasons for them to move there in 6 months? Are their plans to move there contingent on how safe/unsafe it will be there in 6 months, or are they just going to go ahead regardless?

Wrt. to your concerns about power/autonomy in their marriage, including birth control: one thing she should consider (again, if I'm right about what city it is) is that the embassy services in this city are basically nonexistent. So it would be difficult for her to get help if she found herself in a position she wasn't happy with, such as any loss of personal freedom wrt. birth control or financial power.

This is all sounding a little Not-Without-My-Daughter to me (horrible movie, sorry) and I get your not wanting to sound melodramatic or alarmist but I would be worried also. Not about the move itself -- it's dangerous, but it's her business to decide if the risk is worth it to her, but about whether she understands what the outcomes might be. But ultimately this is about trust between her and her husband, which is none of your business, so you're in a really awkward position.

What does your DH think about her DH's motives and character? And about your worries?

I think that it would be a good idea to discuss it as in 'we considered this move but...' as suggested above by somebody. And perhaps sourcing the book mentioned.

I will strongly suggest she goes for a visit first, I could not imagine moving somewhere that I have not visited that is obviously so far removed from what you are used to.

It concerns me also that she has not mentioned this to her parents (with whom she has contact with on a regular basis) as she is worried about the reaction.

I get the impression that the move is set for july to allowing the eldest child to finish school year here and allow for Sarah to find a job for the start of the school year at the end of sept. This is set and has no flexibility to consider the security risks.

My DH already mentioned about the paper work side, you can stay for 15 days with the entry stamp they issue when you arrive after you have to obtain a further visa requiring the submission of blood tests and police interview. I have to do this when I visit (we go twice a year for 3-4 weeks at a time) and I volunteer in the hospital as a nurse near my husbands family home otherwise I would die of boredom and have to provide documents from where I am placed so I can get a visa for that. Her DH seems to think this is optional.

A large number of people from this city are very proud and loyal to the city, it is as if they cannot see the bad through their love of it and think that that the blasts will not happen to them and their families but a lot of the time it does and it is horrific to seethe just thinks that nothing will happen to them.

Keatsiepie from what you say we may be talking about the same place!

worried if we are, you obviously know much more about the city than I do, of course! And I've never been there.

If I were in your position I really would ask my DH if he thought I had reason to be concerned about a friend possibly getting into a situation where she would have little personal autonomy. I would ask him if he thought his friend (her DH) was being straight with her or might be trying to move her into a situation where he could control her. Since your DH knows her DH a lot better than you know her, it seems like he might have some good insight. Do you not want to ask him?

It might also be worth suggesting a more long term contraception approach - as they might be hard to come by. An inplant should give 5yrs protection. Also discussing whether she would be allowed to leave the country 'to visit grandparents etc' without her dh.As someone else said, what have you to loose as if she moves in 9 months you won't see her anyway.

Your husband is from the same city and yet you still visit twice a year for three to four weeks at a time. Are you also not worried about bomb blasts when you visit? The factory comment was probably just a joke and perhaps her DH thinks there would be enough demand for private tuition even she can't a job at an institution due to not having a degree. Do recommend her to a Pimsleur course in Arabic or Kurdish though. Does it seem like she wants to go?