To want smoking in an enclosed space with children to become a civil offence

[minifingers]

Seen three parents smoking in a car with small children, windows closed, I the past 24 hours. Am I alone in thinking this is absolutely unacceptable? As is smoking in a room where children are?

"But just because it can cause harm doesn't mean you can ban it. Kids drown in the bath - should we make bathing them illegal......."

Sorry - are you making an analogy between smoking and bathing your children? A more appropriate analogy would be to say 'just because children who are not strapped in get killed in car accidents you can't make driving illegal." Errr, no, but you can make carrying children in cars without seatbelts illegal. You don't have to make smoking illegal. You can just make it illegal in an enclosed space containing children.

In 2013 I am still amazed that anyone would considering smoking near a child, and that includes a car or in the home.

How much more educating do people need.

Still amazed people start smoking at all nowadays.

notanother - I'm sure I remember reading that the majority of smokers start in their early teens. And of course young teenagers do stoopid stuff. It goes with the territory....

As for being amazed at people smoking around children, I think the problem is that in some communities it's been so completely normalised for so long, that nobody sees it for what it is: a form of neglect that lands many children in hospital and kills a bus-load of babies every year. Really - this is something health visitors should be dealing with very early on.

I think sadly that so much neglect is seen these days, dirty , starving beaten children living in filth and unloved that things like this are allowed to slide as there's no direct evidence straight away that the child has been harmed. It's not a bruise or a cut that someone can photograph as proof. Effects can take years to appear. That couples with an obsession of protecting human rights over the well being if the child that smoking around children or having them crawling with headline etc are things that no one is allowed to bring up.

minifingers Guess so. Makes me cross to see anyone smoking near a baby/child. I just can't believe people still do it. Lady walks past my house with a new born and both her and her partner ( presume that's who he is) have a cigarette in their hands. They are bound to smoke in the house if they are happy to smoke over the pram with baby facing them.

I agree with you that its bloody stupid that people still smoke in this day and age... Particularly when it's people who seem otherwise quite switched on and wouldn't feed their children processed crap or drive them round without a seat belt yet still don't seem to get that smoking is at least as harmful!

But making it a criminal offence.. No, unworkable.

minifingers what about giving children a healthy diet, exercise, proper education. Why does the govt not insist on contraception implants for all women, then if they want to breed, they are taken to an approved centre and monitored 24 hours a day to ensure their pre-natal health. They are then impregnated with apporved sperm and the children taken and raised by people like yourself who are totally perfect and would bring them up in the optimal health.

Of course, when medical advice chnages on the best way of doing things then we can kill off all the children who are now obviously flawed and start again.

Best way all round I think you must agree as anything else is abuse

Caroldecker do you smoke?

Have you smoked around your children?

Do your children have an RS illnesses?

naked is that relevant? My point is there is a significant difference between abuse and non-perfect parenting

There is no such thing as perfect parenting but to smoke around children is wrong and everyone should be more than aware of it and not do it.

How many warnings do some need. Selfish and irresponsible IMO and I don't care how judgy that sounds.

Abuse is willingly and knowingly hurting your child.

Everyone unless they lived on mars for the past thousand years knows that smoking is harmful.

No way can it be explained away due to ignorance or non perfect parenting or by being misguided.

It's not even a calculated Risk for the good of the family. NO-ONE benefits from it at all. It's purely based on a need of one person.

Someone I know doesn't bother with a car seat in the car (2yo) child is fed pretty much all the crap going but the parents do not smoke in the house admittedly I've seen a parent holding the child while smoking but they were outside. People take the messages they want to listen to and ignore others, mobiles are banned while driving but I see several on a daily basis people ignore it if we can't even police that properly what hope would we have with smoking.

Carol - you are bonkers.

40 babies a year die because of adults feeding their addiction to nicotine around them. If 40 babies died from methadone overdoses or needle-stick injuries caused by negligent heroin addict parents would we be tolerant of that and be comparing it in importance to giving a child chips for tea?

There is NO need for adults to smoke in enclosed spaces with children and they should be stopped from doing it. As an adult there is no WAY I'd tolerate someone putting my health at risk in the way. Why shouldn't children have some protection? Why are adult bar workers afforded more protection from cigarette smoke than tiny babies, who are vastly more vulnerable and easily harmed?

You're only allowed a couple of to drive. Should this apply when looking after children too?

bazingasheldon. Yes. Life would ge a million times better for some children if this was the case.

Well common sense would be obviously that if you are going to drink enough that you are rendered unable to care for your dc that they were not in the house or that there was a sober adult in the house.

Or that you stick to a limit where you remain fully capable.
Although how many people think like this I don't know.

Another thing that I guess we hope people would do but would be impossible to police.

Hear friggin hear. Smoking in the same enclosed space as a child IS abuse. You are causing them harm. It is proven that passive smoking can lead to lung cancer. Smoking whilst pregnant should be illegal as well, why would anyone willingly harm their child before it's even born?

And don't start on me being a perfect mother etc carol, I am far from it. But this type of cruelty boils my blood.

I'm a smoker and wouldn't even smoke in my garden with my kids around. DF smoked pipes and cigars in the car with us kids, horrific!

Typical MN response... People try to make comparisons with drinking a couple of glasses of wine at home or feeding the kids chips once a week. Of course there is no such thing as perfect parenting. But why any intelligent adult smokes is beyond me

My point is that there are plenty of other targets - obesity, which kills just as many if not more, alongside a lifetime of misery, psycological issues for too strict parenting, lack of boundries etc.
Agree smoking with children is wrong, but where do you draw the line between taking children away and criminalising parents and education and support?

This Guardian article suggests co-sleeping kills 130 babies a year, so broadly speaking 3 times as dangerous as smoking per minifingers above. This is what should, based on the evidence, be criminalised first. BTW, this is not parents who smoke, drink or take drugs.

Smoking in a vehicle with children present is against the law here in Canada. I have never known anyone to get mad about it, and that includes a fair number of smokers.

I live in a place where it is illegal to smoke in a car with children. It's also illegal to smoke within 10 metres of playgrounds or parks, on beaches, outside building entrances etc. no one seems to mind.

Ilovemydog that will just serve to make you feel better, and she will be resentful and angry. Would you say the same if a mum turned up at school (walking obviously) and smelt of alcohol?

How do you know he's not exposed to smoke by walking past a smokers area? It really clings to everything. I smoke, have NEVER smoked inside, or when I was pregnant or breast feeding, and I never smoke before work so I smell clean and fresh after my daily shower. I did however get cervical cancer which is linked to smoking, and had my uterus, cervix, three inches off the top of my vagina and three inches of parametrium removed to check for lymph node spread. No one had ever said that I brought it on myself because I know bloody well I did.