John Craven has well and truly blotted it imho. This is a rant pure and simple

[Delurkedforthis]

This is not a thread about a thread but it is inspired by one which has spelled out the F word in asterisks in the title.

A few weeks ago, on a programme which surely signals the end of David Mitchell's long and distinguished panel show career: Was it Something I said, an epic disappointment imho, John Craven was called upon to say the word shit but he spelled it out instead saying he had a policy of not swearing on tv. Fair enough. But two sentences later he used the word bitch in full.

Josie Long's face was an absolute picture! If I ever shag a woman it will be her. She picked him up on it and he said 'oh that seems okay: it just describes the female of the species'.

Erm yes, IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT DOGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The context here was a woman. So let's get this straight John Craven: you think you must never ever ever ever call a piece of excrement by its vernacular name, but calling a woman a bitch is fair play.

This has been mithering me for weeks. Thank you for allowing me to get it off my chest. Did anybody else see this?

Bitches be crazy!

I missed it but I would have been raging.

Casual everyday sexism. Sickening.

Can I shag Josie too?

Okay Tee we'll make it a threesome!

Erm, yes, I saw that.

I remember him saying that too and I don't recall it being quite the way you describe it (although I could be wrong). I also don't recall Josie Long having any kind of face on her either.

But then, I thought the show was fantastic and loved every single episode. Personally, I think you're reading things that weren't there.

I just took it as 'he's referring to dogs' and thought nothing else of it.

Bitch is a mild epithet. Men use it to about each other.

I'm not saying it isn't sexist (it is obviously ) but in the scheme of 'shit to protest about' this is really far down the list surely?

I'm not saying you shouldn't have a wee rant but I don't think it harmed Craven much or Mitchell at all.

Heartbroken I could well be reading things into it as you say, because I am a long term admirer of JL and this is the very sort of thing that would irritate her. She definitely picked him up on it though. However
the face could well have been an edited in pick up.

But the quote in which the word bitch featured was definitely referring to a woman! (Though his justification was about dogs it's true, but that just made it worse!)

Interesting that you thought it was fantastic: I didn't miss an episode because I (used to ) love DM and am a great fan of most of the people who were in it, but this was hugely meh for me.

Yep, I must get out more!

I'm not saying it isn't sexist (it is obviously ) but in the scheme of 'shit to protest about' this is really far down the list surely?

Couldn't agree more

It was Richard Ayoade that did it for me

I love that man and he had me in stitches every week. I was watching the extended versions though and I think that made a difference. My Mum was watching the half-hour version and I think it was cut to ribbons from what she's told me.

Mickey Flanagan? I think he's pretty 'meh' and a bit out of his depth, especially when the likes of Robert Webb and Miles Jupp were on.

It was Richard Ayoade that did it for me grin

Totally. I have come very very late to the RA party! Don't tell Mr Lurked but I have bought him the full IT box set for me him for Christmas!

Oh, good choice of present for you for him!

RA is on Big Fat Quiz of the Year over Christmas (can't remember the date) with Noel Fielding - I'm so excited about that pairing, I could burst.

I've only ever been called a bitch once, and that was by a woman. So I'd have to say you ABU.

Sallying

You utter bitch

So some of you think sexism is okay if it is "mild" sexism

<
joins queue to shag Josie>

Although i went to an awesome show of hers last yea
r & was quite disappointed when she announced she wasn't gay as part of a skit.

However, met her after & she was absolutely lovely in person and had me hoping she might be bi

its subjective how people take words. I think shit is perfectly fine, i use it a hundred times as second

but i think Bitch has a nasty connotation (unless you are one gay man saying it to another gay man or hag in jest)

Well the thing that got me was not so much the use of the word bitch, but the fact that this was okay by him, but saying shit wasn't!

I hate gay men saying it too. And fag hag is such a sexist concept as well.

I think the fact that he wouldn't say shit, but would say bitch was what made me automatically think he meant dog. My brain just went 'yeah, John Craven, Countryfile, nicey nicey, no swearing, bitch = dog'. I just can't imagine John Craven being misogynistic - he's John Craven!

He wasn't as good as Brian Blessed or Charles Dance anyway

I think shit is a lot less offensive than bitch.

Vermicious

Love your awesome Christmas take on your already-awesome name

what about Biaaattchhhh

how to say bitch properly

Bitch can be used in so many ways, though. I am perfectly happy to use the word as a verb, or as an adjective when attached to behaviours that merit it (e.g. being a cruel or sarcastic gossip, but there are other less odious connotations to being bitchy too, of course, sometimes being bitchy can be a synonym for being witty, glittering, that sort of thing...) Men can be bitches, men can be bitchy, they don't have to be gay men, either - and I think that's fine if the usage of the word is linked to the well understood behaviour. It's not and shouldn't be perceived as a purely female thing. I do not like the fashion for referring to women as a gender or group as 'bitches' regardless of their behaviour. That's demeaning even though it is closer to the original biological meaning of the word.

I saw that episode ( also love R.A he seems everywhere at the moment, which is fine by me )
I also remember thinking 'but you just said Bitch !' And was pleased he was pulled up on it. However I also remember thinking he probably thought saying bitch was ok because it's a female dog ..

I love how this thread is turning into the Richard Ayoade Appreciation Society