To be suspicious about school trip costs?

[SmiteYouWithThunderbolts]

Recently I (and a few other parents) have noticed the cost of school trips reaching ludicrous levels - far more than the entrance prices for the places they're going to and the coach fees. For example, this week ds2 brought home a letter about a trip to a local museum which costs about £3 per child. The letter asks for a £10 "voluntary contribution" from each parent and says, as always, that the trip will not go ahead without a payment from each child.

The last few trips have been similarly priced and we just cannot see how the difference between the entrance fee and what we're asked to pay is entirely taken up by the coach. From the brief research we've done into coach prices, they're nowhere near that expensive, so where is the rest of the money going? AFAIK, schools are not allowed to profit from school trips, but does this apply to academies too?

Please tell me if IABU and it's actually perfectly justifiable to ask for £10 from parents for a destination that would cost a third of that to go ourselves?

If the price is unreasonable, what could we actually do about this?

For context and to avoid drip feeding, there are other issues around the school and money, such as making extortionate PE kit compulsory at a cost of £32 per child (and only available through the school) and charging £1 for non-uniform days 3-4 times a term.

Leonas-25 quid for a theatre trip sounds a positive bargain!

I think they are just expenses you should expect. The government can't afford to pay for everything. If you send to private school your looking at min £10,000 a year. Paying £100 a year for a big of uniform/ Red Nose Day/ trip to museum is a bargin.

Surely you know your childs at school and they go on trips etc? Surely you have always known they will go to school? You need to find £10 a month to put aside to help save up if needed. Above are right, this week it's £10 museum, but in 3 years its £250 isle of white for the week. Saving each month now will mean if you need it is there and if you don't use all this year it's there next year

'Siphoning off money from parents for what exactly?'

Chocolate biscuits and gin for the staffroom?
Golf club fees for the SMT?
God knows, you can't trust the buggers.

I thought taxpayers pay for schooling.

Our school are really good in that respect. We live 2 miles outside the nearest town and to enhance the learning experience, the school or parents will arrange outings for free such as backstage theatre tours, the only catch being parents have to transport.

This isnt a prob though, they usually ask parents which weekday is best and whichever day has most parental agreement goes, Kids car share etc.

same for sporting events as a coach for a half day is 160.

I agree it gets a bit wearing. I pay for 3x everything which i dont begrudge but non uniform days, cake raffles, money for picnics, homework costs, donations for x,y,z thing, collections after sch plays, costs of xmas play costumes etc it adds up

god, i sound like such a grump! Sometimes it feels like one thing after another though!

And i may have missed it but 32 for p.e kit? What is in this kit?

Our school at for adult help. The money could help those who help unpaid for the day

Hello,
Coach fees are extortionate. Think anything between £500-£1000. For example, a trip with museum fees costing, say £3 plus coach could add another £15 or so on top (depending on the amount of other pupils to spread the cost). In addition, unless the museum offers free places to teaching/accompanying staff (and they usually do), this can also add more cost on top of that. Nothing sinister on the school's part!

Schools have annual insurance policies so its not that.
And LEA schools tend to self insure anyway
Coach hire is around £450 per round trip ...

Coach hire is around £450 per round trip ...

Not in London it isn't. Cheapest quote for a day trip to Bletchley Park last academic year cost £700 for one coach.

I think it is worth raising with the school, they can maybe review the trips they offer and if there are cheaper alternatives.

My kid's school walks or uses public transport for the majority of trips, there is a maximum of one coach trip per year group per year. They don't do any panto trips at all, instead a theatre group comes into school every year for all yr R, yr 1 (and poss yr 2) to watch. This is cheaper as there is no transport cost and either 120 or 180 children watch instead of just one year group of 60 going so the cost is divided up by more children (also means they get to see more plays during their time at school).

I have no idea about insurance but I do wonder how we can have free trips like a walk to synagogoue/church/library or tube to free entry museum. I assumed it was all covered by the schools general insurance policy, a bit like brownies that they were covered on a organised trip with permission as long as they were in uniform.

My kid's school walks or uses public transport for the majority of trips
not an option for those of us with kids at school out in the sticks

its 6 miles cross country from DCs school to the nearest art gallery
over a mile to the train station
and only two bus routes run within 1/2 mile of the school

Our school trips this term are only £4.50 walking to pantomine at local theatre normally £10ish a ticket, £5.50 for a trip to the pantomine going by train (older kids) - don't know how yours can cost soo much and we are in Hampshire.

£10 to take your child to a museum on a coach, pay for museum staff to guide you around, provide activities to do and insurance certainly doesn't sound like a lot to me.

Seriously what are you expecting? Entry fee £3....school trip £3???

Give me a break.

YABU. I was teacher and have organised loads of trips. The cost of coaches is extortionate. Usually you have to hire a coach that is in between morning and afternoon secondary school runs and last time I booked one it was AT LEAST £600. That must be more now as that was a few years ago. We were lucky as on outskirts of London so we tried to use the trains (kids go free) as much as possible, but this can't always be done. Of course it is a voluntary contribution and, believe me, quite a few parents never pay (despite their kids having the latest toys/trainers etc, but don't get me started on that!). It is illegal for a school to make any money on trips and this would be flagged up if it did occur during inspections etc.

Non school uniform day isn't compulsory so you can send you child in school uniform if you prefer and that money if usually to raise money for charity or school fairs etc.

PE kit sounds v expensive and I would probably complain about that!

I am slapping my forehead here in irritation and annoyance. Seriously - some of you think schools are scamming parents? Really? Un-fricking-believeable. I think many of you need to rethink your sucky attitudes

-Marcopront - schools are not allowed to sub the non-payers by asking for a higher contribution. I don't know how many times this has been explained on this forum. Now have we all got that?

-Coaches are very expensive and can be prohibitive in cost. £7-£10 is normal up here in the north and in London maybe up to £12 per pupil inclusive (no subbing allowed). I would say in the past 5 years there has been a hike in prices. I know not why

-Staff have copious amounts of paperwork to complete before and after the trip aka the Risk Assessment...reams of useless paper and pupils' medical needs to worry about

-Trips are a rotten nightmare for staff involved in organising it. Preparation can take months, must involve a pre-visit in the teacher's own time and going over the Risk Assessment with a fine tooth comb by senior management and justification required

-A knackering day involved for all ensues with frantic head counting and organisation

-Museum workshops always involve a cost. These are extras over and above the free entrance. I would be very surprised if the workshop was free

-Schools are not allowed to profit from trips

-Schools get financially audited and auditors will go through everything so there will be no shenanigans such as the OP implies

-Shock/horror that parents have to provide their kids with...lunch

-FYI Sometimes the PTA can provide funds to help with trip costs

Personally I wonder if school trips should become a thing of the past due to sod-all thanks that organisers get and the disproportionate amount of grief involved

Did no one else read the thread? That the OP came back and said they are going in the SCHOOL mini bus not a coach?

I would query why its costing so much if they are going in the two minibuses OP

DH makes his money going to schools and we make the point that hiring him is cheaper than putting a single class on a coach.

Talkinpeace I appreciate not all schools can walk or use public transport but they can review the way they do things and if other ways might be cheaper, like having workshops come to school rather than taking children off the premises, if maintaining and using school minibuses would be cheaper than coach hire (our school has no mininbuses but the church school at the end of my road have several and regularly use them and never seem to hire coaches).

Hear hear Captain. Attitudes on here absolutely disgusting. The school are out of order for not providing "refreshment" on a trip? Where they've undoubtedly tried to keep costs down as much as they can? God forbid you should have to provide your own bloody kid with a packed lunch when somebody is putting in time and effort to give them an extra curricular opportunity...

littleducks
it also depends on size of school : DCs has 300 per year group

and "workshops coming to school" is not the same thing as going to see a professional theatre production, or going up to the London galleries or museums

DD is going to the British museum this month. The train/tube fare alone is £19 from the station 7 miles from here and then there is admission to the extra bits and food etc etc

My daughter does some trips on the school minibus and the costs for petrol are quite frankly astronomic. It would in all seriousness be better sometimes to hire a coach. To be fair if its a day trip and far enough they tend to hire a coach to keep costs down and use the minibuses for 2/3 day trips or very short journeys

fuel costs; just possibly a supply teacher to cover a class whose own teacher is accompanying the trip; some museums etc have a different free place ratio than a school is comfortable with so they may be taking additional adults who need a ticket. Just a few thoughts. Ultimately, yes, what are you actually suspecting? That someone somewhere (maybe the "doodah" lady is hiving off a tidy profit??

To use minibuses, you also need people to have taken the minibus driving test and be willing to drive with a full load of children.
I also had to cancel a free workshop in school, because they didn't have the hundreds of thousands in Public Liability Insurance that the LEA and the school required.

i teach at secondary. any trips i propose go first to my line manager, then the calendar committee for approval, then the leadership team, then finance, then if approved, to county, then finally i contact parents. the breakdown of costs is provided to each party

One of the problems with trips, is the same problem as with many things involving schools.

Communication!

Schools do not give enough warning of trips and they do not give enough details what the trips entail, what is being learnt and how the costs break down.

Also schools are petrified of saying part of the reason for trips is because DCs need to get out the classroom, do something different and have FUN

Ofsted may hugely disapprove of fun, but it's vital for children's forming a positive attitude to school and to education in general.

When we form memories we disproportionately remember things that were different to things that were mundane. Fun trips earn lots of Brownie points in the children's eyes. Come being in their best behaviour or SATs revision it really helps if the children genuinely respect their teachers are on their side.